Question about gender change

[lougle]

If someone is making a transition to one gender from another, what does their sexuality relate to - their original gender, or their new one?

For instance, if a man is transitioning to become a woman, and is attracted to women, would that make them 'straight' or 'gay'?

If a woman is transitioning to become a man, and is attracted to women, would he then be 'straight' or 'gay'?

I'm likely to have to explain 'gender change' to my children, but it occurred to me that I really don't understand the 'gender' part of it at all.

I understand the physical processes and the medical timeline, etc. (ie. live as new gender for x period, medication, initial reassignment surgery, final reassignment surgery), but I don't understand how someone who has had gender reassignment would identify their sexuality.

I hope I haven't offended anyone - I may not have used the right terminology and may have been clumsy in the way I've asked the question.

Kim - yes, cat calling is always harassment. Just so that we are clear. That some strange people might not mind it doesn't mean it isn't harassment.

Thank you for the

The responses on here to bean's posts are very telling and typical of these discussions. Women are admonished for not speaking sensitively enough and told they would not receive vile abuse if they were nicer. Nasty, violent language is brushed off as understandable given the provocation or not representative. Sounds familiar?

Radfems may be small in number but many women who would not characterise themselves as radfem agree with radfem viewpoints on issues like prostitution and porn. Certainly, outside of libfem circles, the vast majority of people do not believe that a person's sex is based on how they "identify" so I would be careful about using that argument to marginalise women.

And transwomen are portrayed as blokes in frocks hiding in toilets with their "rape sticks" at the ready. Every time on Mumsnet. It's why I no longer discuss with trans-deniers and TERFS.

Thread hidden.

As for Paris Lees, the added "context" just looks like "I'm not misogynist but ..."

It's pretty obvious Paris Lees enjoys sexual assault because it is validating. If the articles said "go ahead and catcall and harass trans women because we like it" it wouldn't be so bad but to claim this is a woman's viewpoint is disgusting.

kim you can get the gist of beanella's posts from the responses. Again, you are dismissing vile language because... poor kim

I saw bean's post. It was the nastiest thing I have ever read on this site.

I used to like Paris Lees' writing up until that article, and then I discovered that she and Julie Birchill had been recorded having a "discussion" for the Spectator website. Both of them are shouting over each other in the shrillest, most stereotyped way, and no doubt for the average Spectator reader (it's a right wing mag for anyone who doesn't know) it's a form of entertainment at the expense of the silly little women. There's certainly no other reason for it as you can't hear either of their viewpoints. I thought both of them were brighter than that. Oh well.

I have never seen anything as nasty as beanella's post on the Internet, yet alone on MN. For anyone to say that other people (unspecified) have said mean things (unspecified) at other times (unspecified) as some kind of counter to the general disgust at that post is frankly astonishing. :(

However I'm sure that poster is just one (nasty) person and does not represent everyone who believes in true equality for transgender people. I know that she doesn't represent me. I really don't think it is fair to imply that everyone who supports transgender rights will descend to that level if you talk to them for long enough. While I have some issues (HUGE) with the idea of ladybrain or 'women's clothes' (or indeed 'women's work, not that that has come up in this argument yet) or what constitutes harassment (Paris Lees doesn't get to reverse the clock on the gains mainstream feminists have made over the last 20 years or so regarding what constitutes in appropriate and unwelcome behaviour from men) I would still consider myself supportive of TG rights and I definitely believe that trans women are women and trans men are men.

It's really disingenuous to try to pretend that you have no idea what beanella said Kim. I didn't see it either but from what other people who did see it have said it came down to hoping that Flora's female bits rot/fall off and she dies. If I can figure that out then so can you.

Kim I've found most of your posts on this thread to be very open, and thoughtful. I think I read your post about other attacks a little out of context - I shouldn't have commented on it. Sorry.

Christ. Passive aggressive or what?

kim I read your posts the same as Herc. Yet you followed up saying the same thing again.

No, I wasn't extremely upset nor upset at all. A woman somewhere out in the world is dreaming about eradicating me and people like me (that post is still there) and has wished all sorts of harm on my female body parts. You won't see me banging on about it every time someone else gets insulted for the rest of eternity. It's not the first time and won't be the last time that transactivists have used language like that towards women.

This thread is actually disgusting. I only read a few pages in and absolutely gobsmacked at the transphobia. I wish I'd not read it.

Kim - I haven't seen anyone on this thread that identifies as a radical feminist. The closest I've seen is me saying that the more this debate goes on the more I can see their point and adopt their views on trans politics.

I'm pretty sure that everyone was sympathetic to you at the start of the thread but when you kept trying to make out that your feelings were more important than those of all the women on this thread who have been raped you lost a lot of sympathy. I really don't understand why you have been trying to stand up for men who have no intention of having their penises removed being able to use women's facilities.

One of the major problems that radical feminists have with transgenders is that they shut down any debate with calls of transphobia. You and your cronies have done exactly this on this thread. You've gone one step further by constantly going on about how being transgender and the way you have been treated because of it has made you feel suicidal, implying that if we keep discussing it then you might kill yourself. That's emotional blackmail of the highest level.

Before I discussed this with you the first time my views were that being trans was just like being gay i.e something that was intrinsic and biological. Having discussed the matter with you I'm leaning towards it being just another way for born men to belittle the female experience and grind down our rights.

You've gone one step further by constantly going on about how being transgender and the way you have been treated because of it has made you feel suicidal, implying that if we keep discussing it then you might kill yourself. That's emotional blackmail of the highest level

Why are her feelings and experiences any less important than someone else's? I've read 'I have PTSD' serveral times by CIS women - is this emotional black mail too?