to think that primary school teachers should be made to sit the year 1 nonsense words test

[ReallyTired]

It would be really interesting to see what proportion of existing qualified teachers can pass the year 1 phonics word test. Those who fail it should be sent on an intensive phonics course and then resit the test. Those who pass should be given a bonus. (It make make those teachers who have suffered a pay freeze for the last 3 years a little happier!)

Phonics (alone) produces 95% competent readers. Other methods, including mixed methods, only about 80%.

So you'd not be wrong to say "it's not for everyone", but it's righ that it's the prescribed method, as it produces the fewest failures.

And of course it's the "method" that's been around longest, long before the briefly fashionable methods that emerged in last century and now seem little more that fads.

it does demonstrate (to me, at least) that if we gave this test to adults, as the OP suggests, we would not be testing at all the same things as if we gave it to children

You would if you used the same conditions though LRD. The adult is taught, every day, over a year and half, how to pronounce each grapheme.

They are taught to 'sound out' dog, fog, sog. It makes no difference is the word is 'real' or not.

They are asked to read the 'sound' and say the 'sound': d-o-g, f-o-g, s-o-g.

Adults would have no problem with this. If the grapheme has two or more plausible pronunciation, either is acceptable.

The nonsense word 'spown' could be pronounced with the ow as in brown, or the ow as in throw.

Either would be a pass because you would be using a correct pronunciation of a grapheme.

Phonics is very easy. Blending is harder and that's why it's so important to learn the pure sounds.

Otherwise sounding out of dog would be duh-o-guh (du-ogger).

Surely we attempt to correct words based on the context. The child doesn't correct to a better known word because it is next to an alien, signifying a word from a different culture. Adults don't attempt to correct Frodo, Obi Wan or Katniss Everdeen for the same reason.

My input to this debate is to point out that the only reading rescue method that worked for DS2, who could barely read until about 10, was the "Toe by Toe" book which is almost entirely based on nonsense words, it corrected his bad guessing habit. Incidentally, he had been taught using synthetic phonics but hadn't got the hang of it, I think he needed to spend longer on it than the rest of the class, he got left behind and never caught up. He eventually ended up with a reading age well above his chronological age and particularly enjoys the type of fantasy books full of made up names ( needs some work on his literary taste!).

Anyone who starts frothing at the thought of nonsense is being reactionary IMO.

weare - yes, I hated 'look and say' too.

faire - no, it couldn't ever be exactly the same. Children doing the test have very little experience of reading; adults have masses. Inevitably, it's going to be a slightly different situation. I don't know how much that matters or how you'd even begin to quantify the difference, but it would be there.

Well ok, not exactly the same. But they are very simple words and you can still pass if you make some mistakes.

Would the average nt adult be able to read 'droon' as a single word on a page, in large print, with a picture of an alien next to it, knowing that they were to take their time and that they were being assessed?

What do you think? Would they mistake it for down, or drawn, or something?

Really, the Year 1 test is very simple.

I think most adults would simply see 'droon' and say it. I think a minority would be aware they had, for a split second, wanted to say 'droop' or 'room' or something else. I doubt very much that any NT adult would actually say the wrong thing!

I probably shouldn't have got into this in the first place, because I didn't totally get what the OP was about and thought she was commenting on how adults read compared to how children read. I'm absolutely not trying to criticize teachers, or the test, or to upset anyone.

LRD - what's the pun in diagon alley? passed me by

diagonally

LRD there is so much teaching going on in schools which parents don't understand, it's not surprising that some people get worried about assessments. Parents who were not taught phonics the way it's taught now may think it's difficult for their child to learn but it's really not.

Children are assessed at every single lesson, so that the next lesson can be tailored to suit their needs. It's a good thing. Difficult for teachers to achieve sometimes but still their goal.

The majority of children do not have any problem with phonics. If they fail the Year 1 test, they are re-tested in Year 2 and, again, the majority who failed last time pass then. If they don't then this will flag up the need for further help.

If the majority of Year 1 fail, then that would indicate a problem with the teaching which, again, is flagged up so that something can be done about it.

Ongoing assessments are essential and helpful to children.

ella, I had to have it explained to me too! Surprisingly common, I think.

faire - yes, I do understand. I couldn't cope with look and say and my mum basically went out, researched, and came back and taught me using her own version of phonics. And my brother. I know phonics is a really good thing; I can see the testing is useful.

I think I just got sucked into this thread being about complaining about teachers, and that is not what I wanted to do, and I didn't realize from the OP that that was what it would be about. Really, seriously.

I suppose this only illustrates how little you understand about the test.

Personally I think it's highly necessary, as how else will my children be confident enough readers of fantasy novels? Without phonics, children will never be able to pronounce Tarth or Baratheon or Narnia or Rivendell or Theoden...