to think that primary school teachers should be made to sit the year 1 nonsense words test

[ReallyTired]

It would be really interesting to see what proportion of existing qualified teachers can pass the year 1 phonics word test. Those who fail it should be sent on an intensive phonics course and then resit the test. Those who pass should be given a bonus. (It make make those teachers who have suffered a pay freeze for the last 3 years a little happier!)

Yes Gove would pass it. I think he is a massive bell but seriously. It's for 5 year olds.

Non-word decoding (see Martin Turner, Toe by Toe etc) has been around for ages. It's not hard - just reading. It can be really useful as a tool to check if children really can decode and is a test often used in dyslexia checks. I have found that if children develop the skill to read and write non words, it can really develop basic skills. You do us teachers a huge injustice. Think of slithy toves. We can read and understand it because we have a basic skill all children need to develop.

thescience - cross post. Sorry. Basically, research suggests fluent readers see the word as a shape, not a combination of letters. So at a glance, people would make errors.

It's quite hard to override habit, is all. Most people can, which is why I didn't say teachers would fail, but I do think they would be as likely as anyone else to make errors initially which they would need to correct by reminding themselves of the purpose of the test.

Those words like tove, various answers are acceptable as correct.

media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/p/phonics%20screening%20check%20sample%20materials.pdf

Go to page 2 - 40 words from a sample test, including 20 pseudo words. Obviously in the real thing they'd be presented on larger flashcards and the pseudo words would be accompanied by a picture of an alien.

But lrd-they don't need to read them in a split second and they are told explicitly which ones are nonsense words.

LRD - but you know you're taking a test. The purpose of which is for you to carefully read a new word. Why would any adult just blurt out the first thing that comes into their head after glancing at the words?

If a 5 year old can grasp that then surely an adult can?

Sorry, I double posted.

thescience - well, I know people do make split-second errors, for one thing. The thinking is that it is because fluent readers see the shape of the word as a whole. It's actually that, which allows us to read fast.

So you can show a person the word 'cail' and they will glance at it and see 'call', because they know 'call' is a real word with a real shape.

Obviously, if a teacher knows this is a test for nonsense words, he or she will discount this split-second 'correction' of what's there and will see what is really there.

would love to see Gove get the sack. just would.

And I never said an adult would blurt anything out.

I said they'd make an initial error and correct. I'd assume that'd be a momentary issue, not vocalized.

Yabu , very

With pseudo words you can use any legitimate pronunciation.

ihave - I know they don't have to read them in a split second. I was referring to the 'error' being a momentary one.

So LRD, would you be capable of passing this test or not?

I often miss new words when reading prose (like lrd says, I just look at the shape of words), but when I know this is a test which includes some unfamiliar and some made up words, spaced out in a list, then I know to actually look at the letters and should be fine.

Also - no time limit, and the reader can sound out and blend words as they go. No need to rush and make silly mistakes. Children are reminded to take their time and to read what is there, not what they think it should be.

IME a good reader does not fail the test.

In 3 years not one of my top readers has compensated for a made up word. And even if they did, they would still pass with a fair few errors.

The children who don't pass generally are the ones with gaps in their phonic knowledge, which is fine, because they are 5 and have another 5 years in school learning phonics.

Children can self correct too.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/221767/phonics_20screening_20check_20sample_20materials.pdf

4 other sample test

Ignore that - wrong link!

The children even have practice words first so that the teacher can point out what the real/fake words look like and can have a go at reading them.

thescience - me personally, probably not, I'm not sure. Not sure it matters, either.

All I intended to say was that with adults, who are fluent readers, you are looking at a slightly different situation than with small children. Adults will be more likely to glance at the list and, for a moment, see real words where they know there must be non-words. Children will have less experience, so won't be so hampered by that particular issue. But it is not a big issue anyway ... I really only mentioned it because I was thinking out loud about how brains work.