To think that if children were told that actually, sometimes it's ok to hit back, we might not have such a huge bullying issue in this country?

[wannaBe]

So bullying is on the increase, and it seems that in truth, very little can or is being done about it.

We bring up our children to know that violence – all violence - is wrong. So if a child is bullying another child by hitting, kicking, etc etc we tell our children to walk away. and because no-one likes a grass, it is almost seen as unacceptable to tell someone you’re being bullied. So bullied child fears the reaction of the playground if they tell on the bully, and if the bullied child dares to hit back then it is him/her who gets the punishment when actually, hitting back is nothing more than self defence.

Bullies are generally cowards. So if someone stands up to them by hitting them back they will often back off.

So perhaps it’s time we stopped being so very correct about all this and accepted that actually, it’s perfectly ok, a good idea even, if sometimes a child stands up for themselves and hits back. And that if a bully has been habitually violent to others, it’s no more than they deserve if they get back what they’ve been giving out.

School bullying policies are clearly ineffectual. Young teen still commit suicide because they’re being bullied. Children are under more pressure than ever to fit in, and part of that is not speaking out because that makes you a grass in the eyes of your peers.

There is something very wrong with a world which often advocates giving children certain clothing labels/gadgets/material goods in order to prevent bullying, yet comes down hard on the bullied who fights back.

That was to ThatBloodyWoman

But, yes, I'm not absolutely sure whether if one big bruiser hits another bug bruiser, it's self defence if the other big bruiser throws a punch back.
Don't know on that tbh.

(But it seems fair )

I was brought back to hit back, then run fast. In truth I was brought up to anticipate violence and either get in first or run like hell (preferably the latter).

I was always told to keep my mouth shut though and actually that was unhelpful. The same big gob that got me in trouble in the first place could get me out of it...

I'm not sure for little kids this helps though? For teens, maybe, but at someone point you need to understand your strengths and weaknesses and both of mine were my big gob.

bug bruiser!

I have interesting pictures in my head now!

Sorry 126 !

What I was trying to say is that in bullying it's the 'stronger' attacking the 'weaker' .

Ha, bloody bug bruiser!
Bloody tablet and fat fingers!

People of all sizes are allowed to defend themselves. The difficultly with being a big bruiser is the maximum force you can use may be disproportionate, but if the other chap is a big bruiser too then a staggeringly high level of force may be 'reasonable'. You can't expect people to take a beating just because they are big.

Phew.I am glad to hear that tbh ILove.
I was having a moment of self doubt.

www.bsdgb.co.uk/index.php?Information:Law_Relating_to_Self_Defence

I see that according to this, it is all a very complex legal area.

Way beyond me probably.

When he was back in comp, my very chilled and laid-back son had suffered persistent ribbing both for being 'posh' and being a 'hippy' (oxymoron, surely?) but shrugged it off until he was actually whacked round the head with a bag as he sat in a class. At this point, he turned and decked his assailant with a punch. The school phoned me to tell me that he'd given someone a black eye - I think expecting me to be shocked or apologetic on his behalf - before grudgingly adding that he had been struck first. "Good for him," I told them.
No one in his class ever bothered him again.

Do you know ILove if the law protects children if they act in self defence?

Often seems to come down to whether the force was "reasonable" or not.

No idea where that leaves children.

Is bullying on the increase? Really? It was shit when I was at school over 20 years ago too. There have always been bullies. Don't know whether it was worse back then to now, as I presume it's the same nowadays.
I always teach my children to walk away if there's anyone giving abuse, as that way you're away from it.
Although on the other hand I know from being a quiet person who never usually says boo to a goose if you suddenly turn around and give as good as you get like I once did the pathetic loser bully never comes near you again.
So I'm torn really.

Or at what age a child becomes an adult in such matters,

That is partly why I was doubtful of the op's and others' ideas.

If a child is taught to fight back at 7, I would have thought that they are not going to suddenly stop at 16.

YANBU. I'm with you wannaBe and have told DC that it is perfectly fine to push back and shout "No! Don't hit me!", or even hit back if they are attacked by other children.

My daughter was hit by a boy twice her size.
She whopped him back.
I defended her when I was called in.The teacher told me that my stance wasn't school policy.I told her it was my policy.
They're good mates now.I don't think the teacher likes me much.

But ho hum, I have broad shoulders, and her and the boy are good mates now.

I was always told to hit back harder and I did, nobody ever came back for seconds. It worked for all my siblings too. Amazing how quickly the little darlings can learn with a swift box to the head or kick in the shins. Bullies are cowards and the most effective deterrent is a good taste of their own medicine. They're looking for victims; those who can't or won't fight back so the worst thing you can do is teach your child to stand down and take it.

I teach dd to hit back harder, the bigger they are the harder you hit, she's thumped much older children who believed themselves entitled to push around a toddler and put manners on them.

Teaching them to defend themselves in the only language the bully cares to understand is not going to turn them into a bully. That attitude is the problem. People who can't tell the difference between justified self defence and unprovoked violence aren't going to be capable of teaching their children the difference. There's a huge difference, all violence is not equal.

I always tell my DD to hit back. Trouble is, she never does. She's too scared that she'll get into trouble. So instead she lets the bullies hit and push her and says absolutely nothing. Not even to the teacher.

I was told to hit back, but I was too scared, and felt like I had failed as I just took it and was passive. I don't think that is the answer

There is a difference between revenge and self-defence which many people seem to miss.

When a kid hurts someone once then laughs about it or buggers off or whatever, if the victim then huts them back, that's revenge. It wasn't necessary for them to be safe and it's not an appropriate response, in the same way we don't have physical punishment for adults when they break laws. Even if it's done persistently over time. In that case it's appropriate for an adult to get involved and mete out punishment.

When a kid hurts someone more than once, or goes as if to hurt someone, and the victim hurts them back, that can be self-defence. It's a threat they're trying to get rid of or lessen. If it was necessary to keep themselves safe then it's okay. Plus the kid should still have appropriate punishment for starting it.

All that said, if the adults involved with the kids are ineffective at dealing with bullying, then I'm not going to side-eye a kid who doles out their own punishments that much.

I am in favour of hitting back. It is legal to defend oneself physically, so why are we telling children differently?

However, bullying is more complex than this thread has indicated. In some cases, particularly amongst boys, hitting back will just result in a pounding. Bullies aren't always cowards, just psychopaths. The real problem is not that schools discourage hitting back, it is that current strategies (walking away, ignoring, telling etc) disempower victims. Schools should instead be teaching strategies to enable children to protect their boundaries themselves, without the teacher's help.

Personally I find violence (or at least the threat of) is sometimes the answer.

My two have always been told they will never be in trouble from us if they finish something, but if I find out they started it the shit will hit the fan.

I also explain that not everyone feels this way so hitting back will probably result in some form of punishment. So think carefully.

I would hit someone if I thought it was necessary, hell I would probably kill someone if I had to, if I felt I had too, then I probably wouldn't feel very bad about it either.

Not everyone is a pacifist.

My DS , 14, was bullied once. He hit back.
When he got home, he told us about it. We signed him up for Combat Hapkido. I wanted him to be trained, to learn the real skills, and to be able to practice. I was so impressed with what he was learning, I joined too. We train 6 hours a week, full out.
I know if someone tries to mess with him now, he can take care of himself. It isn't just about blocking, attacking, or disarming. It is about the increase in confidence, building the muscle memory, the actual toughening up. The difference has been incredible.
We are taught not to start a fight, but the minute someone lays hands on you, you do what it takes to stop them.

is it on the increase?

I remember a hell of a lot more bullying when I was at school in the 70s/80s.

what you also need to know if you are younger than that is that A)the teachers didn't intervene as bullying was simply part if school life and B)a certain amount if bullying was carried out by teachers themselves.

I and dh were regularly slapped, pushed and hit by teachers.

anyway I brought up my 4 to hit back if they had been hit, run fast from situations, how to avoid situations, to hit first or act in any way appropriate if they felt they were in danger if being hurt, never stay silent and to make as many friends as possible of all shapes and sizes.

my older ds was bullied once at the bus stop. he was punched and so punched the lad back harder.

got a pat on the back from us, teacher called and we explained that it was self defence and the other parents could either contact the police who would speak to witnesses and we would probably tell our lad to press charges( thru were 15) or best just put the whole thing down to experience. end of.

cyber bullying and internet crime. screen shots, police station.

why would you not tell your child it's ok to hit back?

if an adult attacks you of course you would either fight/flight whatever you needed to do the time to survive.

kids are just the same.

it's also assault and although involving the police is a step it's sometimes needed, especially if the school has a weak management team.