To think private schools should be banned?

[BethanyBoobs]

Why should someone have a better education just because their parents have money? Why should someone have a better chance of getting into university because their parents paid for their education? It makes me feel uncomfortable that people can buy their kids an upper hand when it comes to education.

I feel the same way about private health care too.

IMO private schools should be banned. Everyone should have the same chances when it comes to their education.

Littledrummergirl, that's ridiculous and completely undermines the point if the initiative. Also, that attitude is purely driven by a school's desperation to keep its GCSE league tables at a certain level i.e we font want a borderline C/D pupil doing history. What if they only get a D? Without really thinking about the needs and wants of the pupil.

The idea that the school you attend is down to "choice" is ridiculous and disingenuous. The vast majority have no choice but to use the state sector. It's down to money (or lack of it), not "choice".

One would think it would be would to more effective to focus our efforts on the delinquent parents instead of punishing those of us whip are doing the best for their kids

So you think that 1) state school parents are "delinquent" and 2) that state school parents aren't doing the best they can?

It's not a "punishment" to expect equality for children. It's wanting to put things back to how they should be. Of course, no-one gives up extra privilege lightly, and there are so many examples of various groups who'd prefer not to allow their counterparts equality, aren't there?

And money isn't necessarily the barrier as decent schools give scholarships and bursaries.

Only a tiny proportion of children will access the private sector this way. Money is still the barrier for the vast majority.

If all children were selected at random or by ability, and only later it was discovered what their parents could afford and the difference made up for every child who was most suitable for the school, that would be totally different.

nancyjones I couldn't possibly comment on how our schools compare because I don't know what yours is like. I do, however, know that our school is very different from the many local private schools as I've seen most of them. This is certainly true of facilities but I don't know about teaching because I've never seen a class in progress. We really are worlds apart. Our school was in special measures so I doubt that some of what went on is a million miles away from the worts performing schools. It's picked up a lot in the last two years, with a lot of support from parents and teachers. And yes, my kids would go to the local state school where ever we lived. We moved here years before children were even considered. Why is that so hard for people to believe?

As for the idea of sacrificing my children, that's just silly. We live in the UK, not in a third world country. They go to a perfectly good school and will do just fine. Perhaps if I sent them to a private school, they might do a bit better academically, but I believe the advantages of state education outweigh any advantages they might get at a fee paying school.

I agree in sentiment although how practical it would be I don't know. From what I've read about Finland (correct me if I'm wrong) just about everyone goes to their local state school, which are all excellent, and there are few or no private schools. But the population is much smaller and more homogeneous there. In an ideal world I'd make the UK schools the same. Then there would be more of a level playing field rather than the two-tier system and vicious circle effect we have now. It seems unfair that children who through no fault of their own have parents who cannot afford or are opposed to private school are denied the opportunities/facilities/subjects etc offered to their richer peers.

I agree it is ridiculous, however I know it happens. I think I may have a fight on my hands when ds2 chooses his options as he will possibly be borderline. Unfortunately the parents involved were unable to change the schools decision as they did not have enough information about how the system works. I wish I had an answer for this.

Personally, I think if all the disruptive and violent pupils were excluded from state schools standards would rise immediately.

In addition, stream aggressively so children were taught in cohorts with similar abilities and it would make the job of teaching far easier.

To be honest, this is the only thing that private schools do to drive up standards. The quality of teachers is the same.

Hunreal.. That's not what I said is it?
The reason for poor schools is not the schools but some of the parents at these schools who don't give a fuck. It is these delinquents that are the issue.

But you can on believing that it is not a parents responsibility to bring up and educate their children. I believe it is my responsibility and not the states to do these things.. So thanks all the same but I'll do it my way.

On another note... Dd was in prep school. She is now in State Secondary.. Her best friend lives in a council house and on benefits. [hmmm]

People's perception of private education is so wrong and yet they feel they can comment on it.

If all children were selected at random or by ability, and only later it was discovered what their parents could afford and the difference made up for every child who was most suitable for the school, that would be totally different.
*Hunreeeal, there are private schools like this such as Manchester Grammar School. They operate a blind admission policy and are still one of the most well known and well regarded private schools in the country.
Happyon, you are, of course, perfectly entitled to hold your own reasonable views on the merits or otherwise of private education. Fwiw, I don't pay to ensure higher results. Our local state schools are high achieving anyway and if that was my reasoning, I'd send them state. I pay for all the extras which I believe enhance their everyday experience and enjoyment of school. Even the best state schools cannot offer these as they simply don't have the funds.

Privilege begins before birth.

Perhaps I should have been compelled to live on chips and red bull whilst pg, and then strapped my babies into a buggy, 24/7, facing a wall so that they weren't be advantaged by having well educated, intelligent, articulate parents that could afford to eat well and exercise well prior to conception?

Exactly Hansolo... How very dare you! You thought you had a say in your childs upbringing? How dare you try and give your child opportunities and life choices when others don't. You selfish selfish parent. ;-)

How do you all know what a sticky thread is? I've been on mumsnet under different guises for years & I still don't know
I haven't just not had the booklet, but I think I missed the promotional flyer too !

Whoops, wrong thread!

Odaat - you mentioned that the extra revenue from more children paying for trips etc would be a way to boost the income in the state schools; do you actually realise that schools do mot make a profit from trips, so the influx of children from private schools will only be paying for their child's actual trip cost?

I think you are being a bit thick really on every point you are making. How on Earth do you propose that state schools can just take over and utilise private school buildings? Firstly, there are running costs associated with those buildings so the education budget would need to rise to use the buildings. Secondly, those buildings might not be fit for purpose in their current layout because of differences in class size etc. and thirdly, most people would rather burn their buildings to the ground than willingly give them to a newly formed communist govt without any financial compensation.

You have some very magical ideas going on in that fairy land you seem to be residing in.

Impatient, you're not going to get anywhere with Odaat.

Truffleoil I did realise that Odaat was unlikely to take any sensible arguments on board. I don't think that Odaat or some of the other anti-private school posters have realised that even Finland and communist Cuba have private schools. The private schools in those countries are just for international students, but they are private and fee charging nonetheless.

But you can on believing that it is not a parents responsibility to bring up and educate their children. I believe it is my responsibility and not the states to do these things.. So thanks all the same but I'll do it my way.

I have no idea what you're talking about. That's not what I said at all, is it?

Sure. I'm pretty certain they're right that private schools are engines for inequality, but the ideas of banning them are so silly and ill-conceived that it's not even an interesting idea. Which begs the question, why am I still on this thread.

Privilege begins before birth. Perhaps I should have been compelled to live on chips and red bull whilst pg, and then strapped my babies into a buggy, 24/7, facing a wall so that they weren't be advantaged by having well educated, intelligent, articulate parents that could afford to eat well and exercise well prior to conception?

The opportunity to exercise and not drink red bull or be in a buggy 24/7 are choices open to all parents regardless of income. Private education isn't.

I think Odaat's grasp of the economics of ...well of everything, is very shaky indeed. In fact I think she is probably about 12. She sounds like one of those kids who says 'if people don't have any money why can't the banks just print some more?'

hunreeeal it seems like some people on this thread, possibly AfricanExport, definitely me, view the idea of banning private education as an invasion of the state into what is a private matter, i.e. how you raise/educate your children.

Ouch! Y'all sure like to get personal :)
"...a bit thick on every point you make."
Well ain't an articulate lil dig at me right there.

I am sure you will all come up with arguments against my ideas, just as I will against yours. There is absaloutely nothing wrong in believing and hoping and striving for a fair education system in this country. There for I am arriving for private schools to be abolished, somehow, someday I belive this could happen.

I am sorry of this idea surprises or upsets you. My wish is not to offend you, just to express my opinion - even if - god forbid!- it doesn't fit in with the status quo.

Now, maybe my ideas for this desired proposition need to be more thought out, maybe I need to consult experts on the matter , maybe I am be overly optimistic .... So shoot me!

Quite frankly I hate jumping on the band wagon and havin a pop at the easy target (which is me) as I do not condone money buying education. Education is a human right.

I really do not know what else to say to you lot, feel this is getting no where so I guess I shall be off :)

She sounds like one of those kids who says 'if people don't have any money why can't the banks just print some more?'

My 9 year old asked me that, but even he now understands that quantitive easing is flawed. So based on that I think Odaat can't possibly be 12, I think that 7 is probably more realistic. Her mummy must learn to password protect the family laptop or at least block her from using parent chat sites.

Education is of course a human right as is the right to shelter, the right to adequate nutrition , the right to family life...but we don't think every child should have the same in respect of those.

Why is education different?