To think private schools should be banned?

[BethanyBoobs]

Why should someone have a better education just because their parents have money? Why should someone have a better chance of getting into university because their parents paid for their education? It makes me feel uncomfortable that people can buy their kids an upper hand when it comes to education.

I feel the same way about private health care too.

IMO private schools should be banned. Everyone should have the same chances when it comes to their education.

Nancy: a communist state take over is just what this country needs methinks :)

Whatever you think about private schools or private anything, I wouldn't want to live in a country that restricted people's freedom to that extent. Op's sibling sounds vile but one idiot doesn't mean everyone should be denied freedom.

There was an article in one of the broadsheets at the weekend saying that kids from state schools performed better in exams than those in private.

Think of the pressure they take off the state sytem too. My husband has Bupa and if he hasn't I'd be dead. The NHS is falling apart, and does it need an influx of people giving up private and going there- private patients SAVE the NHS money- that's as ludicrous as suggesting I get my tax that I pay towards the NHS back because I pay privately.

I was recently admitted as an emergency (post cancer treatment) to an NHS ward where they scanned me twice and failed to see that I had constipation impacted right up to my lungs causing breathing difficulties. I discharged myself against doctors advice - first time I met him, and was admitted privately where I didn't remember the last few days as I was basically being poisoned. My surgeon said a couple of days more and I could have ended up with a ruptured bowel and either died ar been very ill. Dh gets is heavily subsidised by work- when it was initially found I had cancer the oncologist said I needed a cone biopsy and an MRI scan to see if it had spread meantime. NHS waiting time for biopsy was a week, and MRI two weeks. So we went private, had cone biopsy the next day, then scan the day after- which we had to pay for privately as it was a different hospital. Turned out that was the right thing to do given my tumour was already 4cm and fast growing type. Do you think I should get a refund?

I've been in two positions in the past year where the NHS have severely let me down and I could have sued them- I'd NEVER do that. It's on it's knees and the last thing it needs is more money taken from it. My daughter is in first year at UNI training to be a nurse and loves it, but is really disillusioned by some of the staff. It's a great institution and badly needs reform.

And they don't insist you sell it and give the monet to the state to house all those DC who are currently in hostels.

If you do happen to have a Monet you could donate to the cause that would be fab.

All the focus on this thread has so far been about British kids, and which British school educates them.

Two thoughts: Do the anti-private school posters really think the parents of children currently at boarding schools will suddenly go 'oh well, I'll just send them to the comp then'. Or will they send their children to comparable schools overseas? Most A and B list independent schools now have an outpost in Asia and/or the Middle East to cash in on their brand. I suspect they would just move their students and teachers lock stock to France/Switzerland if they couldn't operate in the UK.

And what about the foreign students paying double fees to send their children to the likes of Eton and Harrow? Are they allowed to carry on going to these schools, or do we just kiss goodbye to the extraordinary foreign revenue they bring in by attending school here?

They bring that "extraordinary foreign revenue" straight to the coffers of Eton and Harrow.

That money isn't benefitting the tax payer you know. What with private schools not paying tax. There's no potential loss there.

Trebizon
You have clearly never spent a weekend in Windsor's shopping streets seeing how much they spend.

But they don't have to pay tax on their fees to be an economic benefit to the UK. The government reckons that overseas students of schools (not language schools, not universities. Schools) bring in £620m to the UK economy every year, according to this very quick amount of googling.
Are you honestly saying that has no benefit at all to our economy because schools don't pay income tax on it?
link here

To be fair, although some schools do have branches overseas it's mainly to make sure the British school remains primarily British rather than Russian or Chinese (whilst being able to still take the international cash, obviously!) At least that's how it was explained to me by someone from Sherborne.

Obviously this is all in theory, sadly I do realise this is unlikely to ever happen in a capitalist state uber concerned with class. (Hence why I intend to leave this sorry country behind in the future )

I am dying to know where you are planning to go and live, Odaat

You seemed surprised that the thread has focused on British pupils and British schools.

Why would the average UK taxpayer give a jot where a wealthy international elite send their children to school.

So we should strive to maintain a socially divisive two tier education system, and defend the tax free privileges of private schools so that the retail economy may flog some trinkets and baubles to wealthy teenagers?

Your "very quick amount of googling" has thrown up a document which doesn't even include £620 million as a figure except in one table which suggests this as a combined figure for tuition and living expenses in 2011. The same documents also estimates that tuition fees from international students in 2012/13 was £685 million.

So this extra expenditure in the local economy must be non-existent to negligible.

In any case, £620 million is paultry in comparison with the figures generated by English language students and HE students.

Total non argument.

I am pondering this at the mo YoDiggity? Why? Do you care to follow me to a land of hope and dreams?

Not at all, I'm just fascinated, based on what you've said so far, to hear which country would suit your very exacting requirements.

Odaat - have you given up trying to explain to us where the money for the influx of private school kids would come from?

Come on Truffle she's explained. If it sounded vague and meaningless to you then that's your problem, surely.

Tuition fees relates to FE/HE
And those are 'direct economic benefits'
The spending would be 'indirect'

And I didn't express surprise it was focused on British students. Just that in a thread suggesting all private schools should be banned, I couldn't see anyone pointing out that no British private schools wouldn't mean no British children educated at private schools given it is such an international market.
And if the focus of the debate is education inequality for British children, does that mean non-British children could carry on being educated in the schools.

The hyperbole is all your own

Do you still think that when you know that state educated children do better overall than privately educated children?

The OP has conveniently divided the world into private educating parents and state educating parents, oblivious to many nuances of this debate but primarily that some parents educate some of their kids in private and others in state. And one system isn't necessarily better than another but may be more suitable for a particular child. And money isn't necessarily the barrier as decent schools give scholarships and bursaries.

I think tuition fees also relate to private education. They charge tuition fees, do they not? The document you linked to indicates that the indirect economic benefits generated by overseas students studying at private schools are negligible or non-existent. That's the document you posted and the figures you quoted.

Roger that YoDiggity

Question: how can overseas boarding school students not be an economic benefit to the UK? They pay fees, the teacher gets paid, the teacher buys stuff... this money would otherwise remain outside the UK, right?

I don't get the "state children do better overall". That's grand but I'm not parenting them

My DD is massively, massively above and beyond where the state system decrees she should be, supported fully by her school and that's all I can ask for

I don't get the "state children do better overall". That's grand but I'm not parenting them

My DD is massively, massively above and beyond where the state system decrees she should be, supported fully by her school and that's all I can ask for

Bloody phone. Sorry

I think Odaat is very confused

There are a very few private schools I know of that are "subsidised" by the state in some way

Specialist schools for children with severe behavioural difficulties or disabilities are one group. A local authority may choose to send a child from their area there if it is more evonomical/viable to do do than provide an education themselves

The other group is the small group of music/ballet schools where children who have been identified as very talented can gain a place by competitive audition & the fees are paid by an MDS grant.

In no other way are private schools teachers salaries paid by the government and they do not operate from council owned buildings unless I guess a building was rented out under a commercial agreement

And private school teachers are often paid less than their state counterparts.

Well have a look at the document sparechange posted if you like. It doesn't evidence any indirect economic benefits whatsoever. Just fees. The fees don't really benefit the tax payer, as private schools don't pay tax. I would say that private teacher's salaries are a pretty small slice of the 620 million these schools take in fees from overseas students. And teachers in state schools get paid salaries too! They still do at the moment anyway!

Different story with English Language Colleges and HE, where students rent in the wider community and spend on general living expenses there (quite unlike boarding schools).

The foreign money keeps quite a few schools viable and thereby creates employment. Beneficial to the taxpayer.