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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Re: sense of entitlement?

105 replies

thebirthlyhallows · 28/03/2014 11:31

My DB and SIL do not have children nor do then plan or wish to in the future.

During a recent conversation SIL said that when she hits the menopause she should be allowed to take a 9 nine month break from work in order to do whatever she wants whilst receiving "pay" from the government.

I am currently on maternity leave with my first child and it is definitely not a "break" from work!

This makes me feel uneasy but I'm not sure if I'm being unreasonable. Why should she feel like she wants 9 months off work just because she has decided not to have children? Should men also be entitled to 9 months off if they decide not to give birth!?

AIBU to feel that she is being ridiculous? Has anyone else ever met anyone with the same view?

OP posts:
LynetteScavo · 28/03/2014 19:20

I think your SIL is on to something....people could go on on "non maternity leave" and give something to society, such as volunteering for a charity, or a school or hospital during that time.

we don't produce enough food to eat in the UK or fuel to keep the lights on.

But we can afford to import these things.

Can the world afford enough to eat is the question.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 28/03/2014 19:21

I don't think the world is totally geared up towards helping parents.

Which comments are hurtful and insulting, btw?

LucilleBluth · 28/03/2014 19:22

Yes but maternity leave is not a holiday, giving birth and having a newborn is like being hit over the head with a baseball bat and then being spun around a few times and let go.......you recover, find your feet then back off to work it is.

How is that a holiday, your SIL is thick OP.

BillyBanter · 28/03/2014 19:28

It's something you choose to do of your own free will because you want a child, and get maternity pay for.

It's also a holiday from getting up and going to the office 5 days a week for 45 years.

How is that difficult to understand, Lucille?

LynetteScavo · 28/03/2014 19:30

It's also a holiday from getting up and going to the office 5 days a week for 45 years.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahah! Grin

WillieWaggledagger · 28/03/2014 19:38

i don't have children. i certainly wouldn't equate maternity/paternity leave with paid leave for travelling or other leisure pursuits. nor would i equate it to a sabbatical that some employers will allow - that is usually unpaid i believe, and can be for a specific reason, e.g. the writing of a book. i understand that some academic institutions liken maternity leave to a sabbatical and expect the same level of research/publication output from new mothers Hmm

as above, i would be supportive of a period of paid leave for someone with caring responsibilities, e.g. if a parent was very ill etc. plenty of people without children have intensive responsibilities outside the workplace and those could be allowed for. not sure what criteria you would place on it but i think there could be scope beyond compassionate leave etc

MissDuke · 28/03/2014 20:16

I am proud to live in a country where women can take maternity leave for up to a year to nurture and care for their babies. I am glad that is valued. It gives women the chance to breastfeed, bond, etc without living in complete poverty or losing their job. It also allows them to recover from pregnancy and birth, which is physically exhausting. I don't think it would be appropriate for the government to pay for people to go travelling/take extended leave for a break.

Does your sil also think she should be entitled to time off in lieu of any sick leave she hasn't taken? After all, if sick people can get 6 months pay for staying at home, why shouldn't she...?

That said, I do think some employers take the mick with employees who have no children. In her previous job, my sister was always expected to use her annual leave during term time so the parents could get the pick of the school holidays, and she was expected to work Christmas week every year (they all got xmas day and boxing day, I mean the rest of the week). Very unfair. Also, in her current job, a large number were employed at the same time - she ended up with the longest commute of them all as she doesn't have children. She still has commitments and family to see, I don't think it should have been considered when placing them.

KittensoftPuppydog · 28/03/2014 20:20

If you don't have kids you can afford to take time off. Why doesn't she save up all the money she would have spent on having a kid?

itsmeitscathy · 28/03/2014 21:30

Yes, because those without children have nothing to spend their money on. In fact, only those with kids should be given annual leave since the childless have such empty lives...

zeezeek · 28/03/2014 21:40

KittensoftPuppydog - really? you actually believe that? Because, of course childless people are all in extremely well paid jobs and live in luxury flats/houses and are not on minimum wage with no child benefit or any other fucking benefit and so don't struggle at all, do they?

Jesus Christ.

All the years that I was childless I had to compromise on everything to pander to the parents I worked with. I spent extra time working to cover my research assistant because she had to go home to her children. I spent endless holidays not being able to see my teacher parents and nieces and nephews because the parents were all off during that time. Now I have children of school/nursery age I make the choice to be understanding of my childless colleagues because I REMEMBER how much it pisses them off to always be second best. Maybe more parents should stop thinking that just because they happened to have sex at the right time of the month they are, in some way, special.

itsmeitscathy · 28/03/2014 22:08

Nicely put zeezeek

KittensoftPuppydog · 28/03/2014 22:17

I don't have kids. I spend all the money on me. I'm having a great time.
Sorry you're not.

lessonsintightropes · 29/03/2014 02:27

Don't have DCs yet, hope to soon. I do sort of understand where your SIL is coming from actually and think the poster who thinks that her retirement will be funded by other people's kids is talking out of her arse.

However... I also think that the way our country fails to fund mat leave properly (and childcare for that matter) massively disadvantages mums in the workplace.

Neither 'side' gets a great deal. I haven't had a proper Christmas away from work let alone a summer holiday for 15 years as it's prioritised for parents. We go away in late winter and early autumn. OTOH it also means that we pay a lot less for it as we're not trying to book travel when other people are...

What I'm trying to say, probably badly, is that both sides are disadvantaged but in different ways. Your SIL isn't massively entitled, neither are you, it's not unreasonable to look at differential treatment and be unhappy about it - but both sides also have massive advantages. You, for example, have DCs, which I have been trying to do for a very, very long time.

I think letting it go might be a good solution...

WillieWaggledagger · 29/03/2014 07:54

My dp is a teacher. I'm as much tied to school holidays as anyone with school age children if I want to spend my annual leave with him. Which I do

whatever5 · 29/03/2014 09:22

A childless colleague of mine used to make that kind of comment all the time. I always felt like pointing out that she had actually taken more time off than me during her career in total because of all the sick leave she had taken. I put it down to jealousy and just ignored her (after bitching about her to other colleagues of course!)

Original poster
thebirthlyhallows · 29/03/2014 09:41

Thanks again for all the replies

OP posts:
Original poster
thebirthlyhallows · 29/03/2014 09:45

I suppose I posted on here for ideas on what to say in case it came up in conversation again.

I feel the need to justify my 9 months off and feel this is not comparable to a sabbatical.

Not to drip feed but I suppose her viewpoint baffled me more as they both work with children in their jobs

OP posts:
IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 29/03/2014 09:46

Lol at her statement in the OP. I congratulate you OP for not pissing yourself laughing right in her face. She knows it's not a holiday right? Tell her that if she is gonna do that she should borrow some children to look after 24/7, be up in the night every 2 hours to check on them, re-lactate and have then clamped to her nipple for half the day, change their shitty nappies constantly, try to find time to wash her hair Inbetween the incessant screaming/teething/colic and then be told how she is doing everything wrong. She may get a smidgen of feeling about how it really is then.

She'll be running back to work I guarantee it. Nobhead.

IsChippyMintonExDirectory · 29/03/2014 09:50

To add - tell her that before she does all the above someone has to punch her in the fanny about 50 times to get a feeling of how she'll feel as a real maternity-leaver after giving birth. And she gets shit pay BTW. About £500 a month will suffice, if she's still happy to have this little 'break' from work.

horsetowater · 29/03/2014 09:51

She's probably just resentful of colleagues at work. She sounds like the middle managers of yesteryear.

I would make a joke about it. Say something like 'it's not the 1970s any more you know'.

I do think that people should be given some kind of government sabbatical from work every so often, if they want to take it - I think they do/did that in NZ - every ten years they get the option of 6 months off. But that's nothing to do with having children.

FudgefaceMcZ · 29/03/2014 09:52

Tell her you would be very happy and indeed would sign her petition for 'childfree' people to be allowed to take a similar chunk of time off work in order to care for any other incontinent, insomniac, non-verbal family member. This kind of toxic misogynist crap is why the UK will never catch up with civilised countries, and should be challenged via extreme sarcasm at least.

horsetowater · 29/03/2014 09:54

Call her 'CJ' - say 'whatever you think, I completely agree with you CJ. Super.' showing my age

FunkyBoldRibena · 29/03/2014 10:51

'I'd love to give you a reasoned or sarcastic response but the lack of sleep from the sheer wall of slog that is 'maternity leave' means I am so utterly exhausted and unable to form a coherent reply. Goodnight'.

Caitlin17 · 29/03/2014 11:05

Sil has got it wrong but can we please drop the "my children will be paying taxes for her old age care" line. Firstly she'll probably be paying for it herself; secondly you have no idea if they will be paying tax and thirdly it invites the response from the childless well so what I've been paying taxes for your children's education.

Both comments are nonsense. Tax is swings and roundabouts.

Caitlin17 · 29/03/2014 11:11

And can we please drop the /it's so hard work being a parent." It really isn't and the vast majority of us chose it. I'm a parent and I also work full time and people going on about how hard work it is being a parent are far more boring than people complaining about work problems ( see current thread on the latter topic)

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