To feel bloody sorry for some of the people who work in Job Centre

[NurseyWursey]

I had to go into today to discuss why I'm not working at the moment (few of you know, lets not get into that)

The lady who was seeing me said she'd be over in a minute, she was just dealing with another person so I waited. I was close enough to hear the conversation and I've got hawk ears and am nosy

Man: How am I supposed to print cvs out with no f*ckin money

Woman: X you missed your last appointment with us, you'd have money if you'd have come. You know it gets stopped if you don't come

Man: I didn't have any f*ckin money to come

Woman: I can see that you live less than a mile from here, or is there any disabilities or conditions you need to tell me about and I can arrange something for you

Man: no am not a cripple. why the f*ck should i have to walk to you. its too early in the mornin anyway me appointment i need sleep. i need money. you're not helping me

Woman: I'm really sorry X but if you want the money you need to come. You've come today so we can get the money reinstated. In the meantime the library round the corner lets you print for free, could you print some there?

Man: am not goin to no pssin library you stupid cow. wot you think I want to sit in a library for?

At this point he stands up being really abusive, the secretary had to escort him away. When it was my turn she was visibly upset.

:(

How can you help someone who isn't willing to help themselves? I know it's bloody hard when you're skint and emotions run high, and we get volatile especially if we have children to feed, but good grief.

On the plus side she was fab for me and helped me get access to some financial help until I'm ready to work again!
If this woman was you, to you!

Incidentally it's 90 mins by your normal mode of transport

When I finished my PhD recently and signed on, I have to say the JCP staff I encountered were very polite and friendly. I was granted 3 months to find a university job before they'd start imposing other conditions. It all felt pretty pointless because I found out, after signing on for 2 weeks, that I wouldn't be getting any JSA as, having been doing my doctorate and teaching for shit pay for 3 years, I hadn't paid enough NI. But I can't fault the JCP staff I dealt with. I still had to sign on to get my NI stamp but thankfully I'm working now.

My DSis, however, was treated like shit by JCP staff (in a different centre). Her coach advised her to take out a Wonga loan to get herself business cards. She was told to go to a job centre on the other side of the city on days when they knew she was doing voluntary work to boost her CV. She was left in tears countless times and eventually complained about her coach and was fortunately assigned a new, much better one.

Exactly the same thing happened to DH, profondo. The advisor seemed surprised that he didn't want to continue signing on to receive no useful advice on finding an academic job, however.

I hope he's doing alright, Calamitously

The academic job market is horrible. I took a job in international student welfare and I love it. I know for a fact that I'd still be unemployed if I had kept looking for a lecturing post.

I do feel sorry for them, because no one should have to face the kind of abuse they do at times.

But, at the same time - they have a job! They make it sound so easy to find one but in reality it's really not and SOME of them don't seem to realise this.

Some are lovely though - the lady who saw me for a year or so when I first signed on was fab.

When I was on jsa my advisor was great but it was 7 & half mile to the job centre and if I'd had to pay a bill or ran out milk .... Whatever I didn't always have the busfare. I still went, walked there and back but it was a very degrading feeling and I was absolutely exhausted at the end of. I also know I very lucky I heard some of the other advisors being very rude then again equally I heard many other job seekers being threatening. Swings and rounds I suppose sometimes you're lucky sometimes you're not.

Everybody's story and character is different. Some people are nice. Some are not. Whether staff or client. One person's behaviour does not denote another's. Thats the reality of life and the world.

What an interesting thread!

I suppose the government would say that the 'reforms' are working, since the number of jobless has apparently dropped significantly. However, it has worked at some personal cost to both claimants and those working in the Job Centres.

Does anybody have any ideas as to how the system can be improved? It seems that we currently have a 'one size fits all' policy which often fails to take account of an individual's personal circumstances in terms of education, qualifications, age, family commitments, and physical and mental health. Is there a distinction to be drawn between the 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor? After reading this thread, I am coming to the conclusion that possibly there is, although it takes me back to my A level History and the Elizabethan Poor Laws and the references to 'sturdy beggars'!

Even on this thread, there are those who obviously feel or are made to feel ashamed for seeking benefits to which they are clearly entitled, after becoming jobless - sometimes for the first time ever - which exacerbates the feelings of worthlessness and despair which can follow a redundancy. There are those who will take any job, on the basis that it is better to be working than not working, and it may lead to other things, and who are up bright and early to await that 'phone call that might just come and which might just lead to a job. I have no doubt that these people will be successful in finding a job.

Then there are others who object to having to get up 'early' to attend the JC during normal working hours, and do not appear to be making quite the same effort to find work, or to be prepared to take on work which they consider to be demeaning in some way, such as cleaning or factory work.

I don't claim to have any answers but I will say what nobody else has said - and I will now hide in my bunker - the country cannot afford a welfare bill which is not tightly controlled and managed, although the system currently in place would appear to be in need of reform.

I found this article from PCS Union interesting www.pcs.org.uk/filemanager/root/site_assets/camapaigns/welfare/universal_credit_10_things_to_know.pdf. 40% of DWP staff administering universal credit will be UC claimants themselves.

Maybe so, Mistress, but does that mean that those who teach 17-18 year olds should change their attitude and make it a more real-life experience, so that JS should be more able to cope with the real world and the unkind, rude and abusive people that they will encounter?
Is this what sort of world we choose to live in?
If you are doing a job that involves people at a vulnerable time in their lives, you should do it with politeness and a helpful and positive attitude.
Perhaps JS centres should be run on a paid/volunteer basis, so that if you are unsuited, you could be asked to leave. How does the CAB work?
Are their staff routinely unpleasant and hostile to people asking for advice?

Does anybody have any ideas as to how the system can be improved?

I was thinking about this in bed last night and couldn't come up with anything, interesting question!

ProtegeMoi but if she's job seeking in England surely she needs to go out of her way to learn English then? It isn't our obligation to teach her English. Translators cost our country an absolute fortune.

I can think of something to improve it.

Put it back the way it was. It wasn't perfect but it did a better job than it's doing now.

you can't improve the system when there are not the jobs go go round.

my ds had some horrible experiences signing on.

He was sanctioned many times, and i got sick of it, so i went with him. Funny that when they were presented with someone who was articulate and didn't just grunt in despair and resignation, they were all over me like a rash, offering courses, very polite etc.

Oh, DH is absolutely fine, Profondo. It was about five years ago now (but we both remember how utterly useless the job centre were). He's been in a lecturing post for a while now. He did a stint as an (unpaid) research fellow at the university I used to work for, which managed to turn into an RA post and then managed to get himself a lectureship (but we did have to move and I had to do really crappy commutes for years). I dread to think what it would be like trying to get our first academic posts now. Things seem to be ever harder.

Nursey - completely agreed and she is desperately trying to learn English, sadly the only course in this area dosnt start until September and any other course will cost money she dosnt have. She will be starting English lessons in September but in the meantime she needs to feed her children. She didn't expect her husband to suddenly leave and have to jump through these hoops that are clearly impossible.

protege I understand, it must be very very hard for her. I think this is why it needs to be emphasised that learning the language is so important. I mean I know no-one wants to imagine that their family life is going to break down, but it happens. Working in the NHS I've had problems trying to triage people because I can't get any information at all..

Although in the meantime I'm not sure what she can do :(

None English speaking women who have been in the uk for quite some time should be a domestic abuse flag.

It's quite usual for an abuser to prevent them learning the language to increase dependency and limit help seeking opportunities

Woman's aid can via a translation service point her in the direction of free help

That was my thought too, Needs. I knew numerous women who were not permitted to leave the house without a male relative accompanying them, and who were not allowed access to English classes as a way of controlling them.

I have some involvement on the courses that the JC send people on. I used to work in my home town and the majority of people were genuine jobseekers, lovely to work with and I felt that we made a difference. Now I'm working in a different town (for the same company) and it's a horrible environment to work in.

Generally I go out of my way to help and support people to fulfil the requirements set by the JC, even when I'm not supposed to. I ignored a direct order from my manager once and refused to send someone away because I knew she'd be sanctioned unless we sorted out her problem. We know some of the reasons that the JC sanctions people so we try to deal with those issues even when people are rolling their eyes at us telling us what a fucking waste of time this is I've heard stories about how horrible JC staff can be but this is generally from people who are very, very difficult to work with so I don't always believe them.

I'm sure it does happen though because the way that one of my colleagues used to speak to people made me cringe and when I overheard people calling her a snotty cow very quietly to each other I didn't say anything because I agreed with them. And if they'd complained I would have backed them not her. Fortunately I don't work with her anymore.

I get what you mean, MrsD. My immediate reaction to the suggestion that English learning should be compulsory is to think far right nastiness but, especially for vulnerable women, it can be so important in terms of service users' personal safety and autonomy.

My pal who's originally from Somalia volunteers in hospitals and other places as an Arabic interpreter but fluent, good hearted people like him (who don't have dependants themselves and can afford to give their time for free) are not all that common. And often women don't want a male interpreter.

I cannot imagine the pain and desperation a displaced woman who can't speak English but is trying to get help to work and feed her children must go through.

My old university used to run free EFL classes for foreign students, especially post grad and post docs wives. Otherwise they could get very isolated.