To feel bloody sorry for some of the people who work in Job Centre

[NurseyWursey]

I had to go into today to discuss why I'm not working at the moment (few of you know, lets not get into that)

The lady who was seeing me said she'd be over in a minute, she was just dealing with another person so I waited. I was close enough to hear the conversation and I've got hawk ears and am nosy

Man: How am I supposed to print cvs out with no f*ckin money

Woman: X you missed your last appointment with us, you'd have money if you'd have come. You know it gets stopped if you don't come

Man: I didn't have any f*ckin money to come

Woman: I can see that you live less than a mile from here, or is there any disabilities or conditions you need to tell me about and I can arrange something for you

Man: no am not a cripple. why the f*ck should i have to walk to you. its too early in the mornin anyway me appointment i need sleep. i need money. you're not helping me

Woman: I'm really sorry X but if you want the money you need to come. You've come today so we can get the money reinstated. In the meantime the library round the corner lets you print for free, could you print some there?

Man: am not goin to no pssin library you stupid cow. wot you think I want to sit in a library for?

At this point he stands up being really abusive, the secretary had to escort him away. When it was my turn she was visibly upset.

:(

How can you help someone who isn't willing to help themselves? I know it's bloody hard when you're skint and emotions run high, and we get volatile especially if we have children to feed, but good grief.

On the plus side she was fab for me and helped me get access to some financial help until I'm ready to work again!
If this woman was you, to you!

MrsDeVere I'm not directly comparing the conditions, but more commenting on the specific lines I quoted. One day a week of getting up at a half reasonable time isn't that onerous a thing to do, and no I don't think getting up early is a bad deal - as I've posted earlier I do get up in plenty of time for an earlier than 9am appointment every single weekday.

I'm sorry you were treated so badly by your local JCP. Mine haven't set any such draconian measures on me, and they do tend to use what little judgement they are allowed when defining the requirements of each job seeker e.g. they have removed the "must look in local newspapers" element from mine because they know jobs in my field just aren't advertised in places like that. How long that lasts I don't know.

I do know that many of the conditions are set by central policy, and others by regional policy, and the front line staff have no option. This thread was initiated by someone feeling sorry for the front line staff, not as a general central policy bashing forum which is what it seems to be turning into?

No YANBU. There should be a zero tolerance policy in place (which should work both ways).

BUT, the whole issue needs a complete rethink IMHO. The DWP know who the 3rd/4th generation unemployed/never want to be employed claimants are. Why not separate them from job seekers (i.e. those seeking a job) and address their needs differently? Why try to force JCP staff to force them into work, work related activity, CV writing (what would they put on there?) when they're are fundamentally unemployable to begin with? What's the point? They need a different approach. I'm not saying let them get away with it, but generational worklessness/low education etc etc cannot and should not be addressed in the same way as say redundancy.

There's no room for flexibility or creativity in the current system, so everyone's penalised for minor transgressions regardless of personal situations.

I honestly could scream with frustration about the unworkable policies sometimes. 90 minute travel expectation. Expectation to take a factory job if offered (the main work in our town). So, where do I put DCs at 4.30am in the morning to start a 6am shift if I've no one to look after them? Okay - I'll do the later shift (2-10pm) because there's that fantastic nursery that's open to 11.30pm for when I finish and travel back .... oh, hang on...

AND, it's only going to get worse when Universal Credit comes in - mark my words (actually, I don't believe it will ever come in as IDS is a complete and utter fuckwad and this will be his downfall if there's one tiny teeny bit of justice in this world).

When i was signing on in the late 90s early 2000s i was on workfare some of the time which was during the day and then ended up with a paid NIGHT job in a sex chatline office Not all jobs are 9am to 5 pm and there is absolutely no consideration for those who work nights In fact when the workfare providers called on my boss during the day (they were pissed off at losing their workfarer and in those days they got paid if you were on a placement) my then new boss told them to sod off and reiterated to them AGAIN that i was working nights.

The DWP know who the 3rd/4th generation unemployed/never want to be employed claimants are.

Do they Curlyweasel They had better inform the Joseph Rowntree Foundation then because they couldnt find anyone that fits this description.

It's the people who believe the vile rhetoric being bandied around that upset me more I think - not the more vulnerable in our society. Throws hands up in despair

One problem with 9am appointments is that people who are unemployed will not have the childcare sorted that people employment do. If you have to start work at 9am, you arrange to send your children to breakfast club at school (or something else). If you don't have a job, you will be dropping them off at school yourself (and picking them up at home time).

It's unreasonable to expect someone to pay for breakfast club (out of the meagre amount of JSA they get) so they can make a 9am appointment at the job centre. Not everyone has free childcare available to them. Any halfway decent system will have flexibility in place to recognise the realities of people's lives. Some people might get a decent, empathetic advisor but it's far from universal.

You can't simply expect unemployed people to organise their lives as if they were employed.

Local job centre were appallingly rude and nasty with both my children following Uni. Neither of them are workshy and both are polite and well mannered. They had my daughter in tears and neither were they any really help in suggesting job options. They were insisting DD had a bog standard CV when I have taught her for years to tailor CV's to Job specs. They were utterly useless.
I know they have rude clients and it must be frustrating, but there is no need to treat everyone who goes there like shit on their shoe.
DD was even sanctioned because she missed her morning appointment as we had just left A&E where she was having her leg set in plaster. We phoned soon as we could but still money was stopped.
It didnt punish her it punished me as I had to help her financially while she was sanctioned.

My husband used to work for an organisation that worked alongside the Job Centres and he told me some shocking stories about intimidation and places where staff almost had to be escorted to the bus stops because they were scared of being attacked.

Ironically my husband was then himself made redundant and was for 2.5 years. During that period I obviously did not regard him as scum.

All the nasty members of staff get to deal with the scroungers.

Sounds fair.

We didn't even bother applying for JSA, just ran down our savings and made the redundancy last. We were lucky, I know, that we could do this. But having sat in on so many interviews, my husband knew what would happen if he tried to claim. The jobs they'd want him to apply for and the courses they'd want him to attend.

DW had to sign on recently. Its a long complicated story but anyway she is very highly qualified and has a job history that reflects that.

The man at the Job Centre confessed he had never met anyone like her and was terribly deferential and helpful.

While she was there she saw people who obviously and genuinely in need of help and treated very dismissively.

I suspect staff in Job Centres get hardened to the job like police officers and make snap judgements about their clients.

By the way DW was told she had to apply for jobs up to 1 hour and 15 minutes commute away. Just interested as a few people have said 90 minutes.

What is the rule?

Apparently that sort of stupidity kicks in after 26 weeks on JSA.
So you pay a fortune to travel to a job that doesn't pay enough to cover your expenses.

They said DW would not get any benefits at all after 26 weeks as they would means test her assets.

Probably, or they'll make her go on some helpful courses and cut her benefits unless she hoop dances for them.
I don't know much about the mechanics, my DD is an adult and I'm trying to stay out of the paperwork. I'm just there with the hot chocolate and comfort when she's survived another mauling.

Goblin - she could teach on the unhelpful courses as she is a university lecturer. Do you think they would let her volunteer or would they cut her benefit?

MrsDeVere

Hopefully she will be less easily intimidated than the usual client, and offer to work for pay, MoreBeta.

It will be interesting to see how it evolves.

One piece of rubbish already is she went to sign on and was sent away to do it online by the first person she met. Went away, tried to do it online, the website told her to go back to Job Centre as she was not eligible to sign online. Went back and met the 'deferential man' who confirmed she could only sign in person.

Luckily it is only 15 minutes walk but imagine a single parent having to use public transport an 30 minutes each way with a small child - that is 4 hours of hassle costing money they can ill afford. No one gets compensated for the errors like that.

I am trying to help a friend through the JSA process at the moment and am gobsmacked. Her husband has walked out on her and their two children leaving her with nothing. Her English is very limited yet they insisted on a phone application, which I had to do.

Then they refused to provide a translator so I had to attend her first appointment with her to do so. They told her she has to do 30 things a week looking for work and all must be added onto her website thing they make you register on.

The next appointment she was told off as the English is poor when she's adding her notes on the website and they can't always understand it, when she explained she struggles with written English their suggestion was to have a friend do it, so now I update her website with the details she gives me.

Her third appointment I could not make as I was working, they could not change it, they could not provide a translator. She reluctantly convinced her ex to come along and translate for her. Result was they stopped her money as they must be back together.

She has asked for English classes they have said no but instead sent her on a cv course, not that she could understand a word said. Now her task is to write a cv, again they suggest to have a friend do it.

It's becoming a full time job for me because they have no understanding of how to actually help people.

Oh and to those curious about the distance thing. She has been told she has to apply for jobs up to 90 mins away and for minimum wage, meaning she might as well not bother.