To be driven mad by how many people are utterly convinced by homeopathy?

[Wannabuyawatch]

I am just completely baffled by how many educated, clued up people I know, including family members and many close friends, that do not question homeopathy in any way. It is complete nonsense that bases its "science" on the memory of water?? You might as well wave your magic wand and say Hocus Pocus. Of course the placebo effect can be a cure in itself but not for children?? Even my brilliant pediatrician tries to give me homeopathy (probably bc she thinks it will calm me down rather than my children!!)
There is a mum at school whose son has horrendous allergies and asthma. She has taken him off all his inhalers as she wants to "cleanse his system" and only gives him homeopathy. Arrrgh. I see the little boy in tears every day in the spring as he can´t sleep and is exhausted due to his breathing.
My MIL insisted on giving their old dog who was in agony and riddled with cancer homeopathy instead of conventional medicine and god, did it suffer, why why??
Don´t know why but it drives me mad…such an irresponsible industry that suckers vulnerable people in and leads some to give homeopathy instead of conventional meds in dangerous situations.

Yes, but I'm not saying that homeopathy can treat serious illnesses. I went because I'm feeling a bit run down and lethargic. If it helps, why knock it?

Paulsmenis a university education in what?

I would not doubt a classics graduate's intelligence, but I would not ask him or her to do me some blueprints for an extension. Not because he or she was stupid, but because they lacked the knowledge to do that!

However, from the following, it doesn't sound like you specialised in philosophy or anything covering the scientific method.
I'm not stupid and have a university education and I believe in all this wooo stuff. Nobody can say anything that will sway me!

Graphic design actually.

I think you may be able to see the issue then.

I recommend Bad Science by Ben Goldacre. Or you could start from the ground up, and take all the science GCSEs and A-levels you can get your hands on, which is what I did.

What the issue Tilly?

If I was particularly interested in becoming a scientist, I would have studied science, but I'm interested in art and design.

Believe it or not I am not interested in studying science so I can debate the merits or non-merits of homeopathy. I would rather read books on design, go to exhibitions and sketch. SBXP got very upset about some of my view points and used to jump on me and aggressively insist that I justified my points of view. One of the reasons I left him was that I simply couldn't be bothered.

"Believe it or not I am not interested in studying science so I can debate the merits or non-merits of homeopathy"

You should be interested in studying science so you have at least a minimum of understanding about the world around you and how your body works.

At the very least, it should prevent you from making such embarrassing declarations as believing in all things woo and not intending to change those convictions whatever you are told by the people holding science degrees on this thread.

It's none of your business. How do you know what state her sons health is in? Busybodies are so annoying. How would you like to have your parenting pulled apart? YABU

Absolutely fine not to be interested in science. It is not (I repeat, not) fine to disingenuously use a non-related degree as evidence that you're capable of forming an informed viewpoint.

So, basically, you are remarkably interested in having views on homeopathy and other alternative medicines and defending those views, but you refuse to put any effort into making them informed ones, right? If anyone challenges you with information, it's "look, I'm not that interested in it and I don't want to have an argument about it", I suppose.

If you cannot justify a point of view, it's probably because it's a broken point of view.

I have said this before on MN but we have now definitely moved away from the thought of educating our DC in the UK, because of the astoundingly low level of math & science I see in British friends and on here from people who claim to have had university education.

Imho, the culprit is that you specialise too early into the subjects you intend to study at university. So, by the time a student like Paul reaches the age of 15, she can easily have no math, no biology, chemistry, or physics courses. I find that shocking.

Pre-university education needs to be about bringing everyone to a minimum level of understanding about the world, including but not limited to arts and literature. Essential subjects should include some biology, chemistry, physics, and mathematics (including imho probability, game theory and introduction to economics, in an ideal world), lest you end up with university graduates who are clueless about their bodies and the world.

Why should I be embarrassed to have an opinion?

There's a world of difference between believing that homeopathy can cure an aggressive cancer and believing that it can enhance one's wellbeing.

*you're capable of forming an informed viewpoint on scientific matters.

Well personally i think unless you have either tried it or deeply researched it, you shouldnt judge.

I have used it twice,both times it worked,both times it was for my husband who was skeptical,he doesnt like modern medicine but is more of a "raw garlic and vit c cures everything" mindset rather than a homeopathy mindset.He was quite impressed.

Agreed. It is bonkers. It's actually surprising to me that it is legal to sell it at all its such a swindle. Completely different from herbal remedies like St Johns Wort which have some large scale empirical tests to back up their efficacy. What is the mother if that poor little asthmatic boy thinking? Call the school OP!

Eh, arguable Cote. I do agree about low standards of maths and science, but the US system can produce loads of arrogant people on the internet who say things like 'I majored/minored in math and I know this [their maths was always wrong]'. I have not forgotten a yoga instructor who was very anti-vaccine, claimed to have taken some science courses relating to immunology or summat during her degree (and I believe her) and then said "it's only a theory".

I think people need to be taught about the concept of "not knowing what you don't know".

Good lord. Some people are taking this very seriously and there's no reason to get worked up about it.

I think of things like homeopathy as being akin to meditation and yoga. Some people believe that these can cure all illnesses, but others think of them as nice things they do for themselves. I'm quite intrigued by the idea that there is a spiritual and less tangible side to reality. Where's the harm in that? It's not as though I'm trying to start a weird cult.

And yes, some people really do hold the conviction that doing yoga daily and living off raw vegetables means they will never get cancer.

And yes, some people really do hold the conviction that doing yoga daily and living off raw vegetables means they will never get cancer.
We know.

Homeopathy is not particularly spiritual. It just doesn't make any sense. If you want 'spiritual', I suggest feeding some ducks. It is more spiritual than giving someone some money for highly diluted water that has been ”percussed” (so dilute that there is no trace of the active ingredient). Frankly, the idea that water has a memory is not spiritual. It would be utterly disgusting, and it would mean water treatment plants were an impossible idea, as it wouldn't be possible to remove the memory of faeces from water, once exposed.

Well, the point I'm trying to make is whether it really matters if someone wants to go an see a homeopath.

I'm just interested in this kind of stuff, but I have no illusion that it is some kind of panacea.

If people aren't hurting themselves or others, isn't it best to just leave them to it?

"Why should I be embarrassed to have an opinion?"

You should be embarrassed to have declared that you believe in all "woo stuff" and will never change your opinion on this matter regardless of how much proof you are shown that you are wrong.

It shows that you can't think rationally. A rational person would understand why his conviction is wrong when shown proof and change it.

I didn't say that I belived in all woo stuff. That would cover everything from alien abduction to David Icke and his shapeshifting reptiles!

"I believe in all this wooo stuff. Nobody can say anything that will sway me!"

So this was a typo then, phew!!!

Homeopathy makes as much sense as David Icke's reptiles.

what's the harm in homeopathy?

Social acceptance from people who wouldn't use it for “anything serious“ gives it legitimancy for "serious stuff". There is also the issue that Mr Smith on the street doesn't know the difference between a funny sore throat and the early signs of cancer and neither does his homeopath.

Ffs, now you're just quibbling Martorana!

So it is quibbling to believe you when you say:

PaulSmenis Fri 28-Mar-14 08:29:16
I believe in all this wooo stuff. Nobody can say anything that will sway me!

Tilly, someone once told me that I should watch an interesting video on the merits of juicing. Basically, it was by a woman who said she had cured her breast cancer by consuming nothing but vegetable juice (and she was selling products and books of course). So, I can see your point of view, as I was horrified at the idea of a seriously ill person potentially dying because they had bought a book and drunk vegetable juice, instead of seeing a doctor!

Nevertheless, I don't think we can ban these things, because people are entitled to their own beliefs.

Fwiw I see things like getting some reiki, having your tarot cards read or seeing a homeopath as a bit of harmless fun. I enjoy doing these things and even if I feel better because of the placebo effect, the outcome has been positive.