To be driven mad by how many people are utterly convinced by homeopathy?

[Wannabuyawatch]

I am just completely baffled by how many educated, clued up people I know, including family members and many close friends, that do not question homeopathy in any way. It is complete nonsense that bases its "science" on the memory of water?? You might as well wave your magic wand and say Hocus Pocus. Of course the placebo effect can be a cure in itself but not for children?? Even my brilliant pediatrician tries to give me homeopathy (probably bc she thinks it will calm me down rather than my children!!)
There is a mum at school whose son has horrendous allergies and asthma. She has taken him off all his inhalers as she wants to "cleanse his system" and only gives him homeopathy. Arrrgh. I see the little boy in tears every day in the spring as he can´t sleep and is exhausted due to his breathing.
My MIL insisted on giving their old dog who was in agony and riddled with cancer homeopathy instead of conventional medicine and god, did it suffer, why why??
Don´t know why but it drives me mad…such an irresponsible industry that suckers vulnerable people in and leads some to give homeopathy instead of conventional meds in dangerous situations.

I've known a few homeopaths socially. I am sure they all believed in what they were doing, and they are all lovely warm caring people, which makes all the difference. (No, I don't do homeopathy myself)

Some otherwise intelligent friends of ours once told us that homeopathy had cured their toddler of his cold. Like colds never go away by themselves. The conversation then moved on and I didn't get a chance to challenge their views, but they certainly went down in my estimation after that comment.

A couple of points
Firstly very little is known about particle physics and what is known is beyond weird, so I think it is very naïve to say that because we don't understand how something works, that it doesn't work.
Secondly placebo is very powerful,there was a recent (Horizon?) programme showing that placebo was still effective even when the subjects knew that they were being treated with placebo.

"so I think it is very naïve to say that because we don't understand how something works, that it doesn't work."

Nobody is saying that. What they are saying that we have been shown repeatedly that homeopathy doesn't work. Not that it does work, but we don't know how.

I tried to find the rabbit experiment, tuhulula, but all I could find was this Hardly evidence.

Just to pick up on 'highly qualified homoeopath' how does that work? Do they do years of training before being 'qualified' to dish out sugar pills?

All that's required is that they spend a few minutes mixing with some highly qualified homeopaths, get slapped around a bit with a leather strap, and bingo, they're good to go. (On second thoughts perhaps I'm confusing this with another profession?)

Give them a copy of Bad Science by Ben Goldacre!

The diluted remedies are complete rubbish and work by placebo and or the symptoms just cleared up by themselves. Problem is they get mixed up with some alternative cures like ginger for nausea which has some merit.

Placebo effect is no reason to defend homeopathy and the dangers it poses in peddling nonsense to the gullible or ill-informed. De facto when we have to rely on placebo effect to defend homeopathy, we've already acknowledged that it's completely ineffective and merely a sham.

Martorana, that is the experiment. It's not exactly well represented there. I learned about it doing A level Psychology, many moons ago. I didn't say it was 'evidence', just interesting.

Hmmn, most drugs are made from plant extracts in a chemical compound, aren't they? What kind of homeopathy is the most objectionable? Physio treatment can break down scar tissue, as can acupuncture.

But obviously cancer treatments like chemotherapy, surgery and radiotherapy can't be replaced by homeopathy.

As for asthma treatments, I'm a bit unsure about their use long term. Don't most ventolin inhalers have quite a lot of ephedrine or ephedrine mimicking substances in them, ie they raise the heart rate as they cause vasonconstriction of the small blood vessels in the lungs so as to allow more airflow? And ephedrine is made from the plant Ma Huang. I know my vet tells me that the equivalent treatment in horses doesn't work long term as its efficacy wears off over time and its better used in acute stages. As with steroid inhalers.

That is an awful experiment, both design-wise and from an ethical perspective. It proves nothing at all.

Gracelo, who said it 'proved' anything?

Well, what is the point of it then?

For themselves, yes. But not for children

How do you intend to police this then? There are worse things like people not feeding their children, giving them alcohol, being drunk as a skunk in front of them

Less what does that have to do with homeopathy? There's NO active ingredient whatsoever in homeopathic 'remedies'.

"What kind of homeopathy is the most objectionable?"

The homeopathic kind.

You're mistaking a wide range of mainstream / alternative / complementary treatments for homeopathy.

There is often confusion regarding herbal and homeopathic medicine - not short of it on here.

As far as I can see homeopathy 'works' because a patient feels listened to and sympathised with and generally supported and cared for. Which of course is nothing to do homeopathy and everything to do with being talked to by a nice person who is charging you handsomely but I can understand why people feel it's working in place of conventional medicine if they've previously felt like they aren't being listened to or treated correctly.

Do I nelly believe in it though.

Lessmissabs, ventolin inhalers are meant to be used only as relievers during an attack. Daily long-term inhalers are steroid ones, so I'm not quite sure what your point was?

"Physio treatment" has precisely zero connection to homeopathy.

This thread in itself shows the problem with homeopathy. It confuses people by using the names of various substances as labels for bottles of water and sugar pills that are sold to people. People then think that as these have the names of other medicines, they are somehow the same or a similar thing.

People over and over again on this thread alone have confused plant derived medicines with active ingredients with homeopathic medicine.

So if someone is given arnica homeopathic remedies and told to consume then, they do so, at no harm as there is in reality no arnica in it. What then happens if somebody buys actual arnica and consumes it, risking their health, because it's dangerous to ingest arnica, but they didn't understand that because they'd previously been misled by homeopathy?

Or the other way around, where somebody is buying something like the Rescue Remedy mentioned earlier, thinks it is the same as a homeopathic remedy, and buys a homeopathic one instead, and then their symptoms are not alleviated.

If a homeopathic remedy is labeled as arsenic, arnica or whatever, it should have to be clearly labelled that it is solely a bottle of water with no other ingredients, or just sugar with no other ingredients, so that people are clear about what they are consuming.

It is essentially deceiving people in a way that leads them then to not understand the health benefits and health risks of substances with actual active ingredients in them.

Physio treatment" has precisely zero connection to homeopathy

Absolutely. My physio DH would be appalled and offended by that thought!

Well said almondcake

Gracelo, you'll have to ask the scientists who conducted the experiment.

almond has whacked the nail squarely on the head.