To be driven mad by how many people are utterly convinced by homeopathy?

[Wannabuyawatch]

I am just completely baffled by how many educated, clued up people I know, including family members and many close friends, that do not question homeopathy in any way. It is complete nonsense that bases its "science" on the memory of water?? You might as well wave your magic wand and say Hocus Pocus. Of course the placebo effect can be a cure in itself but not for children?? Even my brilliant pediatrician tries to give me homeopathy (probably bc she thinks it will calm me down rather than my children!!)
There is a mum at school whose son has horrendous allergies and asthma. She has taken him off all his inhalers as she wants to "cleanse his system" and only gives him homeopathy. Arrrgh. I see the little boy in tears every day in the spring as he can´t sleep and is exhausted due to his breathing.
My MIL insisted on giving their old dog who was in agony and riddled with cancer homeopathy instead of conventional medicine and god, did it suffer, why why??
Don´t know why but it drives me mad…such an irresponsible industry that suckers vulnerable people in and leads some to give homeopathy instead of conventional meds in dangerous situations.

"Fs, I don't find your joke funny. There are people who genuinely do get taken in by this stuff, with serious consequences".

I'm not joking. I also don't think people should ignore advice of a doctor if it puts them or others at serious risk and haven't said that I do think that

In desperation with 12 year old DS still bedwetting (with huge physiological reasons) we tried homeopathy. Should have just burned £150.

No effect. Advised to stop using fluoridated toothpaste, and not give inhaler when he wheezes. No more immunisations.

I tried to have faith until the last appointment when she (a highly qualified homeopath and very well respected) told us how it 'works' -the 'memory' in a small dose of water of a small dose of something over 1,000 distillations ago.

I so wish I had had the courage to pay her a one pence piece and tell her it held the memory of £100.

Found DS and his friend making a video about impossible medical crises in which one of them shouts off camera -'You need a homeopath.'

I don't think it is ever ethical to give someone a substance while claiming it is something other than it is.

The placebo effect is a powerful thing and not fully understood. Unfortunately it is often viewed as some kind of 'trickery' so sometimes has negative connotations attached.

I think harnessing the benefits of the placebo effect without the need for deception would be a big step forward in medical practice.

Fs2013, there have also been studies on the difference between optimists and pessimists. You feel lucky, so you are an optimist, right? I'm also an optimist. But all that means is that we are predisposed to recollect more of the good things that happen to us and ignore the bad things. It doesn't actually make us lucky. Or make any more good things happen to us. Or make ineffective 'treatments' actually work. Do you see the difference?

The problem is that if you are not aware of that, you may genuinely start believing in superstitions, or positive thinking or homeopathy, which is all very well if it's just you that is affected but when it starts to affect others like the poor little boy in the op's post, it's dangerous.

Giles - then take the risk with your own life not with someone else's.

Homeopathy will not make someone with asthma, diabetes, heart disease "feel better" because it does not work.

YABU - people are free to do what they choose

Did I say anything about taking risks with anyone's life?

I have an asthmatic dd id never dump inhalers and is never refuse medication.

But I'd happily try anything else along side

Well, all your woo has nothing at all on my earnest colleague who insisted that she has been visited twice by an incubus... I'd guess she has some sleep paralysis mixed up with a fruity daydream but there we are, I just nodded and changed the subjec. If you're credulous enough to believe and share something like that, you're going to be fairly impervious to cynics.

Strongly related xkcd webcomic xkcd.com/1235/

I agree with those who think that we should look more seriously at the role of placebo effect.

I also wonder how much the successes of homeopathy are due to lengthy consulations with sympathetic, experienced medical practitioners, as opposed to the standard 10 mins with a GP?

My DH once went to see a homeopath who was also a conventional GP - he chucked the pills away, but he said that the difference between the 10 min appointments he'd spent at the local GP's surgery, with doctors who know very little about his condition, versus the time spent at the homeopaths, with 45 mins talking about how he manages his condition from someone knowledgeable about the issues, was very striking. He said that actually just having someone spend 15 minutes listening made him feel better, by validating that his condition was serious and painful. Which unfortunately isn't something you get on a standard NHS's GP's visit.

I have never used one , but think you are being very ignorant .
My mother in law was transformed after her visits .You have simplified the role of a homeopath . They are not just water sellers ! Sometimes just talking to a caring and sensitive individual can make all the difference , add to this the belief in the product and duh - success .

Why does it bother you anyway op ? Doctors screw up all the time and tell you all sorts if crap and get paid for it ...

Fs, it isn't 'boring' to know whether or not somebody has the flu or not. It is important to know if you are caring for children.

As for the 'maybe my mum's a witch', I'm a bit like that/lucky/spooky etc, that goes beyond optimism into claiming you are special or have some kind of supernatural ability not possessed by others. That's quite a disturbing way of thinking.

I also had no conventional medicine as a child. It wasn't because my mother was a witch or because we used homeopathy. It was because not all kids get ill. Even in terrible famine and epidemic situations with no access to medicine or adequate food, some children survive.

I absolutely agree GrendelsMum. By the time you add up the improvement brought about by feeling validated by a sympathetic ear, regression to the mean and the placebo effect, you've got a fairly hefty chunk of explanation for any apparent improvement. Add in the not-unreasonable generalisation that the type of person likely to embrace homeopathy is the type predisposed to taking a holistic view of their health/lifestyle and making dietary or exercise changes at the same time, and you have a number of factors for improvement which are all too often put down erroneously to the homeopathic substance.

If we talk about personal experience as opposed to scientific opinion, I have consulted three different homeopaths myself for unrelated conditions and twice with DS.

I have always been swayed by someone swearing that they have been miraculously cured, so have always thought I'd just found a duff practitioner. In all of my experiences I have NEVER once noticed a difference or any improvement. The last person I consulted was really 'top of her tree'. I am done with homeopathy now. And I agree with poster who says, more or less, 'there are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, then are dreamt of in our philosophy.' (appalling misquote, I know). But I feel I have given it a real go.

Likewise, I have just purchased a cream which allegedly 'blurs' the effect of wrinkles, enlarged pores and signs of ageing -to find it does nothing of the sort -on me, at least.

A fool and his money are soon parted....

That's awful about asthmatic boy.

But otherwise YABU. DS aged 1 loves homeopathy and willing takes his tabs. Placebo effect certainly works for him.

Mitchell and Webb Homeopathic A+E sketch.

No-one doubts placebo, no-one doubts it helps the worried well. It's a different matter though when it starts making promises on more serious problems or when parents decide to go flower-extract instead of insulin/ inhalers. Not so helpful then and very dangerous. It'd all be a bit easier to stomach if practitioners were a bit more honest about it instead of over-claiming.

Just to pick up on 'highly qualified homoeopath' how does that work? Do they do years of training before being 'qualified' to dish out sugar pills? Suppose I set myself up at a homoeopath, without having done any training, what will happen to me? Can you find yourself up in court for practising without a licence and not being a 'real' homoeopath?

Homoeopathy is nonsense, of course it is, but I think the fact that some people believe it makes it work for them and if it that way works, it still works. The only problem I can see is if some people are so head buried in the sand that they refuse other real treatments that actually do work.

There are caring people to talk to who don't have the drawback of being medical charlatans at the same time though. They're know as counsellors, psychologists et al, and there's scientific basis for their work.

Waltonswatcher, I have no objection whatsoever to people having access to a "caring and sensitive" individual, particularly if that person has the skill to help them take a holistic view of their lifestyle and encourage them to take control and make sensible changes. In an ideal world that role would be carried out by GPs, who also have the wherewithal to prescribe suitable medication where symptoms indicate. Unfortunately the strain on our health service makes those GPs the exception rather than the rule.

What I object to is the blatant mis-selling of a product which has been definitively proven not to work, inasmuch as there is nothing specific to the pill, potion, concoction, whatever, which works. Placebo effect is fantastic, as I said in my previous post, but it isn't specific to homeopathy. Neither is a sympathetic ear etc. These things work, so let's find out more about how they work so that we can apply them in an open, honest and ethical way and help more people achieve physical and psychological wellness.

Loved that sketch! Must show to DS!

Onsera3
Of course he willingly takes them. They are sugar pills
Have you met a child that won't willingly eat sweets?

I remember once, someone telling my mum that she'd cured her breast cancer with homeopathy. My mum said 'well she couldn't have had cancer then'. My dad died of cancer, so it wasn't the most appropriate thing to have said to my mum.

"
But otherwise YABU. DS aged 1 loves homeopathy and willing takes his tabs. Placebo effect certainly works for him."

What does he take them for?

Exactly, Select. Lets work out how we can use the genuine medical benefits of a sympathetic, knowledgeable ear and sensible advice (plus placebo effect!) in our NHS.

"As for the 'maybe my mum's a witch', I'm a bit like that/lucky/spooky etc, that goes beyond optimism into claiming you are special or have some kind of supernatural ability not possessed by others. That's quite a disturbing way of thinking".

Really? I don't feel disturbed! Apparently 1 in 7 people are psychotic if pushed the wrong way or it can lay dormant for years. I heard that somewhere. I guess we'll never know all the answers.

Sparechange I managed to find some that had no discernible sweetness. They just tasted chalky.

Even they were sugar pills they would probably work. A paediatrician friend told me they give sugar drops to tiny babies in the hospital as pain relief.