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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That those who disbelieve Women suffered DV because the police say otherwise?

74 replies

EthelDorothySusan · 27/03/2014 07:51

There has been a report today, showing the police pen push ok, their attitude and evidence gathering is so poor that they fail families suffering DV.

All those who say the poor Man falsely accused in court by it criminal or family court, see the police did nothing she was a liar... well maybe she was not liar, maybe she and the children were put at risk for years, because the police failed her and her children.

Yes I know some Men suffer DV, it is the minority so I am using the majority as a Woman.

OP posts:
Goblinchild · 27/03/2014 10:20

Police? Confused
I'm not a police officer and never have been.
However, many of those I've known would rather face most other crimes before they tackled a domestic situation where the boundaries flow like water, and where they may begin by attempting to protect a victim and end up being attacked by both parties. Where they put themselves at the risk of harm to be vilified by both partners, and where they attempt to resolve a situation, only to watch a victim return to the abuser again and again.
Some things need to change drastically, and it isn't just the police.
Otherwise the only winner is the abuser.

EthelDorothySusan · 27/03/2014 10:26

Ahh poor Police officer doing the job they chose and are paid to do, it must be so hard for them, being punched by the Man who is punching the Woman and children, or verbally abused by the Man who is verbally abusing the Woman and Children, poor things, they will have to take time off work for whitnessing the Woman and children being abused, it is after all, all about the police and not about the victims.

OP posts:
Fusedog · 27/03/2014 10:27

Sorry opposite but I can't agree in the country you are innocent until PROVEN guilty and if we went round telling people they are still guilty of a crime dispite no evidence or being found innocent there would be chaos and also thats pretty much how a lot of dicterships run there legal system

If some one is found not guilty then there NOT guilty other wise we would have people going round accusing people of all sorts just saying I am not lying or I no you did it in a grown up democracy and lega

bongobaby · 27/03/2014 10:29

I believe that some Judges fail to protect Dv victims.
For ten years I have had to put up with abusive violent exp behaviour. At a fact finding hearing I reported how he had held a knife to my throat whilst holding baby ds, how he had held a meat cleaver over his head and brought it down on my hand narrowly missing my fingers, pushed me physically whilst pregnant. Damaged my car by throwing acid all over it, driven into it whilst parked up causing dent, spat and scratched it. Even my solicitor told the judge how frightened i was of him. The judge told me off saying "Miss Bongo you are not looking at Mr fuckwit,I find that rather rude"I reported this to the police and they determind it was his DNA spit. He was out on bail for this and the judge dismissed it all as lies on my part. Like I was a mad liar making things up. He sat in court and was allowed to swear and laugh at me. I'm angry because had he been nipped in the bud I wouldn't still ten years later be suffering from an ex who's mission it is to terrify me.
As it turns out he has recently twice been convicted of beating his exp with him also using a knife to her. Not a prison sentence but a suspended one!! So really he hasn't changed his abusive violent ways in Ten years.
Finally next week my case worker at the brilliant womens aid will be holding a MARAC meeting as I am classed at high risk. In the last few months things have happened and I was told by an officer not to upset exp or frustrate him, to let him in as he is entiltiled to see his ds, wtf is that attitude about. Yes let into our a convicted violent exp on my own, it begets belief.
He now wants the non mol granted to me last at Christmas to be removed and yes I'm bricking it as he is able to take it back to court and have his say that I have fabricated the whole thing. I'm fucked if they remove it and will consider moving abroad if they do. Sorry for the long post.

Fusedog · 27/03/2014 10:30

I don't take up for the police at all however things needed to be tested in court if somone is found nit guilty then it's taken there not guilty the only exception to this are people who confessed or were caught red handed but get of due to police or judicial incomptance eg but even then legally that person could sue if you go around saying they did something when found not guilty

Goblinchild · 27/03/2014 10:32

No, that's not what I said, OP.
Being attacked by an abusive man when they have been called to a domestic is par for the course.
Walking into a domestic, being attacked by the man, seeing signs of physical abuse on the other household members, attempting to arrest the man and then being attacked by the man and the woman in order to prevent the arrest is less clear.

Fusedog · 27/03/2014 10:32

Bongo baby

Can you not change your name and move before the non mol comes off

I know it's drastic but you need to protect yourself

Nicknacky · 27/03/2014 10:34

Op, I'm struggling to see from my posts where I have written people off as being mentally ill, or said I'm fantastic. But there's probably nothing I can say to convince you otherwise.

EthelDorothySusan · 27/03/2014 10:40

Bongobaby, I think you should move abroad, you won't be protected, my prayers are with you.

OP posts:
Ilovefluffysheep · 27/03/2014 10:43

Sorry you've had a bad experience with the police Op, it sounds as if you've been dealt with very badly which has had a lasting impact on you.

However, to tar us all with the same brush is unfair. To imply that I'm failing people at work on a daily basis when you don't even know me - well, its simply not true. I do care, I do a good job, and I try to help people to the best of my ability within the constraints of the law and the millions of local policies that we have to comply with. It won't always be good enough, and yes, I do lose sleep over that. However, I'm guessing that you're probably not that interested in my opinion as a police officer, as your over whelming opinion seems to be that we're all terrible.

bongobaby · 27/03/2014 10:47

Fuse dog the non mol was granted for twelve months at Christmas through an energancy without ex being notified. We then had a second hearing where he attended to contest it. Ex became angry and started losing it swearing at the judge and storming out of the court throwing his chair onto the floor. The judge then granted the non mol stay in place. Six weeks later ex made an application saying its not fair it stays in place and he wants it to be removed. He is a physco and not right in the head.
I wish I could move and start again but he will find me wherever I go. I belive that He recently placed a tracker on my vehicle whilst wearing a balaclava laying under my car at midnight few months ago. The police put it down to a suspicious incident. They have been useless in seeing what has been going on here in these years. Only womens aid are protecting me and ds now.

Dahlen · 27/03/2014 11:05

THe trouble with police involvement with DV is that there is only so much they can do, even if they take it as seriously as it deserves.

They can arrest if they have reasonable grounds to suspect an offence has been committed, and they are now duty bound to report the incident, check with SS about the welfare of the DC, etc. They can also refer to the DV unit if the case warrants it, but that like many things in the public centre is resource dependent and so tends to be done by priority rather than as standard.

I've lost count of the amount of cases I've seen properly dealt with by police go precisely nowhere because either the CPS decide there isn't enough evidence to proceed, or a magistrate decides that a few hours community service or a compensation payment is suitable recompense. The trouble is - and this isn't an excuse - some police officers get very jaded by this, knowing it won't go anywhere and knowing that quite often the victim will be unco-operative as well, and so they fail to do as thorough a job as they could, doing instead the bare minimum to fulfil their job requirements.

Now that's not acceptable. But one of the best ways to improve things is to get the courts to take DV more seriously and to maybe change the law to look at different ways of gathering evidence for the sort of offence, which unlike other assaults usually takes place behind closed doors with no witnesses.

Another problem is that the police cannot wave a magic wand and prevent an abuser being abusive. They cannot stay permanently resident with a victim either in a relationship or having ended one, in order to deal with an abuser at every single time they are being abusive. All they can do is respond to a 999 call made by the victim once something has already happened or is imminently about to (and often has by the time they arrive).

Futhermore, the difference between civil law and criminal law means that many forms of abuse are best dealt with using civil law to prevent them (albeit with a power of arrest attached), especially as some forms of abuse aren't criminal. Many people don't understand this difference.

To complicate things even more, most victims put up with a lot of abuse before they ever call the police (about 35 incidents on average) and very often take their abuser back once the dust has settled. It needs to be understood by victims that the police cannot stop that person being abusive and remaining in the relationship. Remaining in the relationship carries the certainty risk of further abuse that the police can only turn up to afterwards. Further education in PSHE style classes about healthy and abusive relationships and how abusers rarely change might help with this.

But what we really need is a cultural shift, where abusers are ostracised by wider society and there are serious consequences even for 'milder' forms of abuse. At the moment, abusers suffer little in the way of consequences unless their abuse takes the form of serious physical injury to their partners (and I'm talking more than a black eye), which is something the police have no control over. They are not judge, jury and executioner, they are simply the first point of contact in the criminal justice system. As long as an abuser can retain their job, friends and family, they will continue to abuse. And the victim will continue to be blamed because it's more comfortable for wider society to believe that.

The police are quite rightly being held more accountable for abuse cases. As they should be. There is still room for significant improvement and some old dinosaurs and outdated attitudes that should be put firmly in the past. But the police are not gods who can make everything ok and unless we have massive legislative change, that isn't going to change anytime soon.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 27/03/2014 11:14

Ethel I think you have a good point to make, but the way you are making it is stopping what you have to say from being heard.

You sound so angry and hurt and vengeful and confused. It's awful to hear you in that state as you're obviously in a terrible place and bad treatment t from the police that you've come into contact has made you feel this way.

But by generalising so much, and by seeing everyone as hostile and lashing out at them, well, you are inadvertently losing sympathy and people that are very knowledgeable and do very much support victims of cosmetic violence.

What do you want out if this thread? I'd maybe repost under a different section and try to be more specific and less defensive.

I am so sorry this happened to you.

Nicknacky · 27/03/2014 11:25

That's really well said, Dahlen .

Perfectlypurple · 27/03/2014 11:26

I know I didn't say anything about the op being mental. Look back at my posts.

EthelDorothySusan · 27/03/2014 11:28

they fail to do as thorough a job as they could, doing instead the bare minimum to fulfil their job requirements. Now that's not acceptable

That is what Teresa May's report is saying.

OP posts:
Dahlen · 27/03/2014 11:31

I'll have to read Theresa May's report more thoroughly. What else is she suggesting?

The trouble is that unless the evidential burden and sentencing guidelines are changed, the end result for victims will be no different even if police officers do a fantastic job in each and every case.

Fusedog · 27/03/2014 11:32

poster bongobaby when I say move I mean to another part of the uk were is would be very difficult to just find you

Northen Ireland
Scotland Shetlands
Jersey
Gurnsey
That place in Spain that's part of the uk you could simply plan tell no one then slip away if criminals can slip away then I know you can

And mafia boss was discovered in west London only after 12 years last week and that was Interpol , police here and in Italy on the case you ex is not that smart of he would not be doing what he's doing

sashh · 27/03/2014 11:43

What personality type has a lack of empathy and understanding towards DV? What type of personality type likes to CONTROL people?

The same type that accuse someone lying in a hospital bed with acid burns of doing it to herself, even with CCTV showing she didn't.
Or the ones who asked me what I'd done to 'make' someone attempt to break my door down to get in and beat me ip. Answer, she has serious mental health issues, I visited her mother in hospital and now she wants to beat me up for visiting her mother.

They still refused to come out.

BreakingDad77 · 27/03/2014 11:54

Police forces have been poor but also what can they do if the abused wont press charges (because he loves me)?

Can remember an episode of 999Whatsyouremergency and think there was a woman matter of factually saying all her boyfriends/men abuse her no point reporting it?!

EthelDorothySusan · 27/03/2014 12:04

Every person posting on this thread as far as I can make out, who is a survivor of DV, were not living with the abuser and wanted to press charges, yet were failed by the police.

OP posts:
deakymom · 27/03/2014 12:11

okay so did anyone hear about the man who got away with it?

he got away with breaking the ribs of his partner because he said he was aiming at the child because he was not aiming at her he wasn't done by the police then the social services got involved and she got told off because of putting her children in harms way so she left and he sued her for joint custody....and got it because there was never any violence documented against the children he then hurt one of the children severely and he got a warning (still allowed contact) in the meantime she is going through parenting classes (not him) he hurt a child again she told the police the social workers everyone she didn't think he was safe with them they again made her do courses told them he was fine talked about putting him on a course to control his aggression (didn't happen) he then battered his new partner she refused to allow her children over and got a police caution (or something along those lines) for breaching a court order in a total panic she called out of hours social worker and told them everything contact was immediately stopped but the caution remains and when he gets out of prison (it really was a bad attack worse than they first thought) he can still go for custody of the children

got to love our system dont you?

bongobaby · 27/03/2014 12:32

The police were more interested in that I had breached the contact order in stopping contact as I had found out that ex had been convicted of domestic violence. They put this down in a report to social services that I am frustrating him by doing so. He came to my front door trying to kick it in. He had also said that he can understand why some fathers kill their kids because of cunt mothers that stop dads seeing their kids. He also told my ds to hit me and laughed about it.
I would never put my ds in a situation where he is not able to fend for himself should his father kick off at him. If I willingly let my ds go off on contact knowing that ex is a violent offender I would be had stern words to by social services that I had put ds at risk of harm. I am fully prepared to be in trouble by the courts for stopping contact because for me protecting my ds from harm is my job as his mother.

chateauferret · 27/03/2014 20:43

@Fusedog - if you want to disappear and not be found, remote and sparsely-populated regions are not the best place to go. The problem is that incomers stick out like a shiteheap in a ballroom.

If I wanted to disappear and not be found I'd go to London.

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