To think the parish council shouldn't be able to do this?

[GothDetective]

I reckon there's something dodgy about our village parish council and not sure if this is misappropriation of funds/tax or something?

I live in a village about 3000 people, same old blokes have been on the council for over 20 years.

About two years ago the village sports bar was struggling financially and was going to close. It was a members only bar linked to the sports association. The parish council took over the running of it.

I guess they have to pay rent, they certainly have to pay staff. It has a full time cook, a bar manager and several bar staff. The bar continues to lose money hand over fist. They pay for bands to come on when no one is interested so more wasted money. They've refurbished it, relaunched it several times.

I just feel our council tax is propping it up.

Also is it normal for a village this size to have a full time, salaried "village manager". And two full time groundsmen employed by the parish council?

[GothDetective]

I have no idea what the village manager does apart from to be in charge of the bar manager and bar staff and sort out room bookings for the hall. I imagine he's in charge of the grounds staff.

Grounds staff have two playing fields to mow, verges to mow, dog poo bins to empty. They have mini tractors to help with the mowing.

Only sports teams I'm aware of in the village are various football teams, all of whom pay subs and the teams have to pay a substantial amount to be able to use the playing fields. Something like £400 per team per season. There's also the occasional cricket match in the summer. Oh and there's a bowling green. The village has three tennis courts which anyone can use if they pay to use them. No tennis club.

[GothDetective]

There's no sports facilities as such. Just the playing fields which are marked out for football and the tennis courts. Tennis courts are Tarmac and I've seen nothing done with them in years. You get the odd kid using them but that's it.

[cozietoesie]

You'll wish to note Goth, that playing fields are darned expensive to maintain/mark if they're being done by paid staff and to proper standards. That's no inconsiderable expense just by itself.

[pluCaChange]

You're right: nearly 200K on "other" is serious lack of transparency, at the very least!

[Birdsgottafly]

Goth, (not to make light of this) but, tell another person about what you plan to do.

I can't help feeling this whole thing is the plot of a Midsummers Murder senario and you will be found supposedly "choked to death on a cucumber sandwich" once you start to unravel the truth.

[GothDetective]

Its the bar I'm more bothered about than the playing fields to be honest. It just doesn't seem right that people's tax is being used to prop up a failing business.

[ProfYaffle]

I had a tiny amount of involvement with a village Parish Council and, yes, they do tend to have historic income from bequests, trust funds, ancient land rights etc. I'd echo advice to go along to the meetings and see what's going on (take a strong coffee, they're a snooze fest)

There are higher authorities that can get involved if enough residents are unhappy with the Parish Council. I know ours were threatened with the Town Council (!) It may be worth contacting County for advice.

[cozietoesie]

I think you should look at the lot if it's not transparent.

For example, the grounds maintenance for that number of pitches could be in the region of £50 or £60k a year, say. (Depends what is being done.) That's a lot of money and if it's always Joe Bloggs that does it (because that family has always done it) you have to be thinking what savings tendering it out could produce.

On the other hand, the cost might just go up because a tendering exercise could produce a revised and more perfect requirement - or the tendering itself could be flawed if the organization are not up to scratch.

There's an awful lot to think about which is why people often just give up - because it's too much like hard work and they might alienate the local power structure. Maybe just get what information you can first and just asking for it might serve as a shot across their bows.

[LIZS]

You would normally have to pay a parish clerk - they minute meetings , manage activities within the remit fo the council etc so that may be part of the village manager role. Presumably they have an AGM where you could raise you concerns ?

[GothDetective]

There's a paid parish clerk as well.

Thanks for the advice, will start asking for further info.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Are they allowed to put nearly 200k down as "other"?
that sounds like an awful lot to be 'other'. Though at least the 'other' income is more than the 'other' payments.


There will be meetings and elections - we regularly get a leaflet with information. (the latest looking for a new lengthsman - 7.5 hours pw, provides own van and tools). There should be a notice board somewhere as well.

[NigellasDealer]

definitely a whiff of Midsomer Murders about this or possibly Hot Fuzz.
OP watch your back! and we need to know if you get mysteriously stabbed with a pitchfork.

[cozietoesie]

I'm guessing (and that's definitely a guess) that their accounts will require scrutiny by, say, the Charity Commission and the local authority. How well those accounts are scrutinised is, of course, another matter. Sometimes, just getting accounts from local bodies is such a victory that they're simply filed for future study - which never actually happens.

[Nanny0gg]

You can attend the annual meeting. You can stand for election. You can see the accounts.

And the Parish Clerk needs to be salaried position - it is an actual job.

Maybe suggest the bar is turned into a Constitutional Club with a board of trustees (not PC) to run it. The one in our village is thriving.

[Ishouldbeweaving]

If you live in the parish you have a right to inspect the accounts (there's a link here . If you keep an eye out this summer there will be a notice of inspection published in the local paper and stuck up on the local noticeboard (probably near the bar) and you can go and ask questions of the external auditor. You could, for example, ask for a breakdown of the "other" expenditure heading (the figure will be different because what you will be asking questions on will be the 2013/14 annual accounts and obviously they haven't been prepared yet). You can also sit in on council meetings, the date, times and agenda should be pinned up somewhere, probably in the sports bar if that's where they meet.

My village has one of the highest precepts in the county and that's because they run a sports centre. That was a surprise when we moved here because it's not a parish function, it's a district council function.

(In my previous life I was a local authority accountant)

[AgaPanthers]

My Dad is an accountant/auditor, and a few years back he joined (volunteered) the Parish Council as their treasurer. The same old woman had been in charge for years and he said they did things like get quotes for work and then go with her son's company rather than the cheapest.

He said they squandered money like crazy (it was supposed to be Conservative, but apparently public spending doesn't count when you are doing it yourself).

[AgaPanthers]

He resigned after a year I think, just because it was such a horror show of whackos out of a Simon Pegg movie.

[Owllady]

Yes, our village one is like something out of hot fuzz too
They even oppose things that benefit people (children) who live in the village. I find it a bit tbh, especially as ours gets council tax money too (it's def over £100 pa, just from our bill)

[GothDetective]

OK, it gets odder.

There's been mutterings about the bar in the village for a bit. This has got stronger recently (not by me but others in the village).

Today the chair and the 2 vice chairs have resigned as has the village manager.

[cozietoesie]

Probably a wheeze to get external funding of some sort, Ishould. (The parish council running it.)

A scandal looms, Goth ?

[GothDetective]

I remember when Tony Blair bought that big £7 million mansion in London one of the papers said what his council tax was. It was less than for my 3 bed semi.

[mummymeister]

OP if some of the Parish councillors have resigned then there will be an election. you need to get yourself onto the parish council and get involved - only way to find out what is going on and influence. this was me 5 years ago. fed up with my PC granting random planning applications. so I rang my local District council spoke to the elections officer and found out how to get on to the PC. there are elections every 4 years but generally never enough stand so whoever stands gets in. PC are paid for in your council tax by a precept. they are under the same sort of rules in relation to behaviour and governance as a DC or County Council. our parish is tiny so has nothing like as much money as yours. however, what has probably happened is that they have got too involved and don't have any clue how to get out of it. remember there are no requirements to become a councillor - you don't have to pass a test. speak to the Parish clerk ask her/him about getting onto the PC. once on it, you will find it much easier to find this information out. and yes, it is a public body so you can make a FOI act request and they have to respond to it.

[Furball]

As long as the par ish coun cil is still quorate there won't be an election. You can however be co-opted onto the co uncil at anytime if there is a seat. - which there now is

[Paddie]

And PCs do not decide planning applications.....this is done by DCs......a PC is a statutory consultee and has a right to comment on the applications that's all

[Littlefish]

Furball is the queen of all things Parish Councilly......