To think the parish council shouldn't be able to do this?

[GothDetective]

I reckon there's something dodgy about our village parish council and not sure if this is misappropriation of funds/tax or something?

I live in a village about 3000 people, same old blokes have been on the council for over 20 years.

About two years ago the village sports bar was struggling financially and was going to close. It was a members only bar linked to the sports association. The parish council took over the running of it.

I guess they have to pay rent, they certainly have to pay staff. It has a full time cook, a bar manager and several bar staff. The bar continues to lose money hand over fist. They pay for bands to come on when no one is interested so more wasted money. They've refurbished it, relaunched it several times.

I just feel our council tax is propping it up.

Also is it normal for a village this size to have a full time, salaried "village manager". And two full time groundsmen employed by the parish council?

[ChunkyPickle]

I should mention, she's very hot on rules/regs, data protection etc (won't even take a laptop to meetings because the rules could be read that anything there should be available for public inspection), so I've not been privy to anything I shouldn't, or anything that isn't public record.

[ChunkyPickle]

My MIL is a part-time parish clerk, and you could not pay me enough to go through the nonsense and hassle she has to go through - both from councillors, villagers, contractors and all the powers that be she has to deal with.

In the past she's been a kind of one-woman hit squad, sorting out nearby parish clerks who've got in a pickle (intentionally or not), and from her tales, finding one that's run properly is much less likely than one with shenanigans!

Beware that people get very, very het up about all this, so if you cause waves, you'll want to keep an eye out for people getting miffed with you and planning repercussions.

[LadyMud]

"My god that is a lot of money"
It all depends, Faye, on how it is spent. There's a huge variety of parish councils - some are just a talking shop for retired white middle-class men and offer no additional services to the community. Others manage sporting and social facilities on behalf of residents.

Our parish council employs around ten staff, which is obviously expensive. But they are able to bring lots of additional services and funding to the area, by working in partnership with the unitary council, neighbourhood board, police, local business, etc.

However, there's one factor which most parish councils share: the difficulty in persuading residents to stand as candidates. Go for it, Goth - you are exactly what your parish council needs!

[FayeKorgasm]

My god that is a lot of money. I am a parish councillor. Our precept is under £10k. Every year since I was elected, we have voted to either reduce our precept or keep it the same.

Your Parish councillors should be re elected every 4 years. If however, you only have as many candidates as council posts, then the election wont happen and all candidates will be appointed. Why not stand yourself? It is not a political role - I'm the least political person ever, but it gives you a say in the running of your community.

[IamRechargingthankYou]

Look - you're perfectly entitled to attend any meeting of the Parish Council by law. Most Parish Councils completely welcome this as so few people get involved in this (I agree badly-named) layer of local government. Most Parish Councils include a part of each meeting for members of the public to talk to the council. All of the Minutes and Agenda are public documents (as are the accounts) which should be readily available for you to look at if there are offices (a lot of Clerks have all the Parish Council 'stuff' in their homes so a good idea to call and check). The Accounts need to follow a strict format, which is regularly audited and checked (used to be annually) so fraud is pretty difficult. Some Parish Councils work really hard for their local communities and some don't - some can be really hilarious and some can be dour and completely boring.

The Agenda for Meetings should be published and put on a Notice Board about a week ahead of the Meeting.

If your Parish Council really are as bad as you think they are - there is always the Annual Parish Meeting (not to be confused with the AGM where the council elects its Chair, etc) in which any Elector of the Parish may speak to those present on any subject they choose. In fact those present can choose/vote to elect their own Chair for the Meeting. There's always a way round.

[LadyMud]

If there is a vacancy, it HAS to be advertised. Residents can, if they wish, call for an election (within 14 working days). If not, the current council MAY choose to co-opt someone - or they MAY choose to leave the seat vacant.

If an election is called, then any resident, whether independent or a party member, can stand as a candidate. The nomination forms will need to be signed by a couple of other residents who are on the Electoral Roll.

If there's only one candidate (for each vacant seat) then they'll be elected unopposed - with no vote taking place. If there's two or more, then an election will be held.

Hope that helps!

[frumpet]

gothdetective , speak to who is left on the parish council and see if you can be co-opted onto it , more than likely they are desperate for fresh blood !

[Littlefish]

Furball is the queen of all things Parish Councilly......

[Paddie]

And PCs do not decide planning applications.....this is done by DCs......a PC is a statutory consultee and has a right to comment on the applications that's all

[Furball]

As long as the par ish coun cil is still quorate there won't be an election. You can however be co-opted onto the co uncil at anytime if there is a seat. - which there now is

[mummymeister]

OP if some of the Parish councillors have resigned then there will be an election. you need to get yourself onto the parish council and get involved - only way to find out what is going on and influence. this was me 5 years ago. fed up with my PC granting random planning applications. so I rang my local District council spoke to the elections officer and found out how to get on to the PC. there are elections every 4 years but generally never enough stand so whoever stands gets in. PC are paid for in your council tax by a precept. they are under the same sort of rules in relation to behaviour and governance as a DC or County Council. our parish is tiny so has nothing like as much money as yours. however, what has probably happened is that they have got too involved and don't have any clue how to get out of it. remember there are no requirements to become a councillor - you don't have to pass a test. speak to the Parish clerk ask her/him about getting onto the PC. once on it, you will find it much easier to find this information out. and yes, it is a public body so you can make a FOI act request and they have to respond to it.

[GothDetective]

I remember when Tony Blair bought that big £7 million mansion in London one of the papers said what his council tax was. It was less than for my 3 bed semi.

[cozietoesie]

Probably a wheeze to get external funding of some sort, Ishould. (The parish council running it.)

A scandal looms, Goth ?

[GothDetective]

OK, it gets odder.

There's been mutterings about the bar in the village for a bit. This has got stronger recently (not by me but others in the village).

Today the chair and the 2 vice chairs have resigned as has the village manager.

[Owllady]

Yes, our village one is like something out of hot fuzz too
They even oppose things that benefit people (children) who live in the village. I find it a bit tbh, especially as ours gets council tax money too (it's def over £100 pa, just from our bill)

[AgaPanthers]

He resigned after a year I think, just because it was such a horror show of whackos out of a Simon Pegg movie.

[AgaPanthers]

My Dad is an accountant/auditor, and a few years back he joined (volunteered) the Parish Council as their treasurer. The same old woman had been in charge for years and he said they did things like get quotes for work and then go with her son's company rather than the cheapest.

He said they squandered money like crazy (it was supposed to be Conservative, but apparently public spending doesn't count when you are doing it yourself).

[Ishouldbeweaving]

If you live in the parish you have a right to inspect the accounts (there's a link here . If you keep an eye out this summer there will be a notice of inspection published in the local paper and stuck up on the local noticeboard (probably near the bar) and you can go and ask questions of the external auditor. You could, for example, ask for a breakdown of the "other" expenditure heading (the figure will be different because what you will be asking questions on will be the 2013/14 annual accounts and obviously they haven't been prepared yet). You can also sit in on council meetings, the date, times and agenda should be pinned up somewhere, probably in the sports bar if that's where they meet.

My village has one of the highest precepts in the county and that's because they run a sports centre. That was a surprise when we moved here because it's not a parish function, it's a district council function.

(In my previous life I was a local authority accountant)

[Nanny0gg]

You can attend the annual meeting. You can stand for election. You can see the accounts.

And the Parish Clerk needs to be salaried position - it is an actual job.

Maybe suggest the bar is turned into a Constitutional Club with a board of trustees (not PC) to run it. The one in our village is thriving.

[cozietoesie]

I'm guessing (and that's definitely a guess) that their accounts will require scrutiny by, say, the Charity Commission and the local authority. How well those accounts are scrutinised is, of course, another matter. Sometimes, just getting accounts from local bodies is such a victory that they're simply filed for future study - which never actually happens.

[NigellasDealer]

definitely a whiff of Midsomer Murders about this or possibly Hot Fuzz.
OP watch your back! and we need to know if you get mysteriously stabbed with a pitchfork.

[ErrolTheDragon]

Are they allowed to put nearly 200k down as "other"?
that sounds like an awful lot to be 'other'. Though at least the 'other' income is more than the 'other' payments.


There will be meetings and elections - we regularly get a leaflet with information. (the latest looking for a new lengthsman - 7.5 hours pw, provides own van and tools). There should be a notice board somewhere as well.

[GothDetective]

There's a paid parish clerk as well.

Thanks for the advice, will start asking for further info.

[LIZS]

You would normally have to pay a parish clerk - they minute meetings , manage activities within the remit fo the council etc so that may be part of the village manager role. Presumably they have an AGM where you could raise you concerns ?

[cozietoesie]

I think you should look at the lot if it's not transparent.

For example, the grounds maintenance for that number of pitches could be in the region of £50 or £60k a year, say. (Depends what is being done.) That's a lot of money and if it's always Joe Bloggs that does it (because that family has always done it) you have to be thinking what savings tendering it out could produce.

On the other hand, the cost might just go up because a tendering exercise could produce a revised and more perfect requirement - or the tendering itself could be flawed if the organization are not up to scratch.

There's an awful lot to think about which is why people often just give up - because it's too much like hard work and they might alienate the local power structure. Maybe just get what information you can first and just asking for it might serve as a shot across their bows.