To think "politically correct" is one of the most over-used and misused terms around?

[Nennypops]

I keep seeing the term 'politically correct' being used all over the place as a catch-all terms of abuse by people who clearly have no idea what the term means but want to convey that whatever it is that they disapprove is in some way unnecessary, wet, lentil-knitting, left-wing, or even positively harmful.

For the sake of convenience, I'll adopt the definition of political correctness given in Wikipedia - "a term that refers to language, ideas, or policies that address perceived or actual discrimination against or alienation of politically, socially or economically disadvantaged groups. The term usually implies that these social considerations are excessive or of a purely "political" nature. These groups most prominently include those defined by gender, race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation and disability."

I accept that it can be valid to criticise over-sensitive concerns about discrimination, but I've seen the term used in defence when someone is called out for blatant racism/sexism/homophobia etc and richly deserves it. It usually signals to me, frankly, that the person in question is even more of an a*hole than their original conduct suggested - they are trying to suggest that they are in some way justified and that complaining is ludicrously over-sensitive.

If I see the term incorrectly used in support of what otherwise might be a valid argument, it instantly annoys me and changes the way I view the person using the term. It tends to be used in relation to things which seem to me to be self-evidently beneficial - e.g. breastfeeding, the right to a fair trial, the right of children not to be left with abusive parents, etc. It is also quite often used for things that have no conceivable element of political correctness at all; I once saw it used in relation to the suggestion that it would be an idea to take an umbrella out when it's raining.

Seems to me that it's time to make the term completely redundant. If you find yourself about to use the term "politically correct" just stop, and find some other way of expressing your views.

'It's not being "nice" - it's about making children feel good about themselves and not feeling like failures by being forced publicly to come last in an event'

But not at the expense of preventing the competitive from shining. The top athletes can compete competitively in one race and the less athletic can be non-competitive in another race. That is fine.

What is politically correct is forcing the competitive to be non-competitive because the liberal orthodoxy sees competitive instincts as unsavoury and not good for fostering an equal society and that is what the Daily Mail is against.

P D james does not give an example of what she mean by linguistic fascism. I have given an example of it which is the professor and environmentalist who wanted to jail and treat as traitors those who did not believe in global warming. That to me is linguistic fascism and proscribing of thought and accusing of thoughtcrimes.

That's another example of the logical fallacy you operate. P D James described political correctness as linguistic fascism. You have found an example of what you claim to be linguistic fascism. You therefore claim that is political correctness. Classic fallacy of the undistributed middle.

Yes and I think that is what Lessing meant to. (sic) What do you think she meant by political correctness?

I think she meant what everyone one else means by it, i.e. roughly as described in the original post.

'Right, Claig, so in your view anyone who seeks to stifle opinion that differs from theirs should be described as politically correct.'

No, not at all. Something is politically correct only if it follows the orthodoxy.

OK, so you say that anyone who seeks to stifle opinion that differs from the politically orthodox view in their country/circles is being politically correct. Therefore, as discussed previously, you are saying that Hitler, Stalin, Hussain, Ghaddafi, Amin and the Catholic Church were all being politically correct when they went to extreme lengths to stifle orthodoxies that were not approved in their countries. I notice that you don't seek to argue with my main point in relation to that comment, which is that you are imposing your own interpretation on the term and really rendering the entire discussion pointless.

'We do sports day because it's tradition. But we don't do any other public examination of school activities where everyone must take part.'

Yes we do it because of tradition becaue our entire civilisation over millenia has wished to foster competitiveness in order to develop characteristics that help in life. It is important that children can shine and be recognised as winners for the children and for our society.

Only in the last thirty years has political correctness inverted many of our civilization's values and traditions and become the orthodoxy and that is because the elite wanted to discourage competitiveness and excellence in favour of egalitarianism for the new society that they wished to develop.

But with the Daily Mail and Gove and rigour and competition, the orthodoxy is being toppled and political correctness is declining in strength as tradition reasserts its values again.

'I think she meant what everyone one else means by it, i.e. roughly as described in the original post.'

'discrimination against or alienation of politically, socially or economically disadvantaged groups'

'I believe that political correctness can be a form of linguistic fascism, and it sends shivers down the spine of my generation who went to war against fascism .'

I don't think she meant discrimination. i think she meant free speech which fascism denied.

' Therefore, as discussed previously, you are saying that Hitler, Stalin, Hussain, Ghaddafi, Amin and the Catholic Church were all being politically correct when they went to extreme lengths to stifle orthodoxies that were not approved in their countries.'

Yes and that is the danger of political correctness. It stifles freedom, just as it did under Hitler and Stalin and just as it did for Solzhenitsyn. That is where it ultimately leads to if the professors who want to jail people for opposing global warming ever get their way.

' I notice that you don't seek to argue with my main point in relation to that comment, which is that you are imposing your own interpretation on the term and really rendering the entire discussion pointless.'

I don't understand this. Can you explain it a bit more?

''I believe that political correctness can be a form of linguistic fascism, and it sends shivers down the spine of my generation who went to war against fascism .'

You think political correctness is a good thing. I don't and it seems to me that the above quote shows that P D james doesn't think so either.

But with the Daily Mail and Gove and rigour and competition, the orthodoxy is being toppled and political correctness is declining in strength as tradition reasserts its values again.

The thing is, the tradition you refer to never went away. Nothing whatsoever to do with either the Mail or Gove. Next you'll be saying that it's the Daily Mail who stopped people calling Christmas "Winterval".

'I believe that political correctness can be a form of linguistic fascism, and it sends shivers down the spine of my generation who went to war against fascism .'

I don't think she meant discrimination. i think she meant free speech which fascism denied.

Despite the fact that she very carefully chose to refer to linguistic fascism, not fascism?

You carry on thinking that if you want to. It doesn't make it true.

Claig, I've heard it all now. You seriously think that Hitler, Stalin and Catholics like Mary I were politically correct.

You really are living in your own world, aren't you?

'Was Hitler PC?'

Yes in the sense that his orthodoxy could not be challenged. But it is a different form of political correctness to the one we have now.

You think political correctness is a good thing.

Do have a look at my original post and tell me where I said that.

'Was Hitler PC?'

Yes in the sense that his orthodoxy could not be challenged. But it is a different form of political correctness to the one we have now.

Humpty Dumpty strikes again.