To think NHS do gooders need to realise that the patient is not always right

[oggieogggie]

I've had a right few weeks of it. I'm an auxilliary nurse and my morning normally starts by taking breakfasts around the ward. Picture the scene if you will - a trolley full of cereal, bowls and milk and a pot of hot porridge.

I walk into room one = "would you like breakfast this morning?" patient (full mental capacity) says "well before all that I'd like you to fix my TV. I cant get the channel to turn over." I say "well I'll see to that after breakfast, would you like some cereal?" he says "not until my TV is fixed ... can't you just do it, it will only take a minute (so everyone else should wait until YOUR TV is functioning before they get their breakfast and you don't see that as selfish at all?) I don't say this - I remain professional.

Imagine a few more patients who decide that their TV/Slippers/Laptop chargers etc are more important and then the unfortunate patients who receive cold porridge as a result -

Next I take a tray of hot toast around = One patient demands "I want it buttering and cutting into thin strips." I explain that she will either have to press the buzzer for someone else to come and do it or wait until I have finished delivering toast before it gets cold. "But I want it NOW!" she demands. Ok, so it's fine that everyone else will receive cold toast? that's ok with you is it?

Imagine more of the same throughout the day

"I can't get my phone working!" = well I'm taking care of a rather ill patient at the moment, it will have to wait." "that's it!! I'm making a complaint!!"

"I want you to wash me." = "I will help you but you have to wash what you can yourself." = "why?? its what you get paid for!!!" no actually - I get paid to help people back to independence and to care for those who genuinely can't do it themselves ... " - "Ive had no sleep!! I want you to wash me! I can barely move I'm in so much pain!!" (well walking down the stairs for a fag 10 minutes ago must have been agony then eh?)

I'm sorry, but could it not be said that sometimes, just sometimes certain patients are not always right and that as staff members we should not live in fear of one of these people complaining that we're not jumping through hoops to keep them happy? And no I've never had a complaint against me - I do that nursey thing of taking the abuse and maintaining a smile. Just lately I can't quite shake the notion that the NHS (and Britain in general) is so bothered about political correctness and ultimate customer satisfaction that it's actually counter productive. Why are we all so polite??!

Not you personally paying the money out though Fluffy.

Don't get me wrong some people can behave horribly, especially when ill. However I do not think people should be made to feel a burden to the State or guilty for being ill.

The problem with that argument is that it leads to HCPs behaving as if the cost is personally coming out of their pocket and all kinds of value judgements about who 'deserves' care and what kind of care they 'deserve'.

I have worked with many people who act as if they personally finance the ward/unit/service and pass this attitude onto patients.

Kudzu You should strike, it's obvious you are understaffed.

In Italy you have to provide personal care for your relatives in hospital - feeding, washing, shaving etc.

If you can't manage/don't want to - you pay for someone.

This actually works quite well as you are not relying on overstretched nursing auxilliaries/volunteers and making it a professional transaction rather than imagining that someone will get "angel" treatment.

When fil was in hospital for a hip replacement I saw how bloody rude some of the patients were. Unfortunately then of course it takes a great deal of personal strength by the nurses not to be rude in return, and then I suppose they might adopt a cross defensive stance to deal with everyone, even the polite patients.

Yes some people are rude and entitled, being ill does not make them behave better. But being in pain for days or weeks, having a head injury, dementia, lack of oxygen, all make patients behave less polite than they would normally.

I think you can just tell from some of the young staff, that they have no idea at all what it feels like to be ill and incapicatated, and reliant on others for the simplest of things.

And some nursing/care staff do behave really badly. Like the male HCA who was constantly sarcastic to my mum because she read a broadsheet, and so he called her a snob.

Simple things that are commonplace seem to show a lack of concern for patients too. Nurses routinely talking at a normal level of voice in the middle of the night about routine stuff, keeping patients awake for example.

Personally, I think the medical care in hospitals is usually very good. I think the nursing care is often lacking. When my gran was dying, it was the Dr who showed concern and care. Most of the nurses just seemed to see her as a nuisance because she was confused, and not easy to manage. Routine stuff like her mouth care, was very poor. We had to ask for supplies to do stuff herself.

That male HCA sounds shocking Grennie if he was my colleague he would get told sharpish to get his act together! Nasty!

Sometimes I get a bit paranoid when I hear patients talking 'behind our backs' about us (but then I'm prone to paranoia anyway).
I try to remember that the patients feel vulnerable and being 'bitchy' is the only power they may feel they have. (OK maybe some patients are just horrible but I try not to think that).

For example one lady in her 40s was in for her 2nd admission for COPD in a week. She was picking on every single thing she could find wrong within earshot but behind the nurses backs but was nice to our faces.
I tried to think that maybe she just has an awful life - being that ill so young must be horrendous.

I try to think of reasons for patient's bad behaviour so then I don't feel so bad about it. If someone is particularly rude I ask them if they are ok and often it turns out something is upsetting them. There's always a reason for people's behaviour.

I will say that most patients are lovely, and even when they are ill they ask after the nurses if they think you look a bit tired for example. They don't have to do that.
They love to be involved in any gossip about nights out, boyfriends etc and ask all kinds of questions about the nurses lives - I think it takes their mind off their problems.

I've only ever had one complaint and that was when I was the only nurse around on a night shift - I couldn't get to a patient in time to help her to the loo because I was stopping a man from falling out of bed. I asked her politely (I'm always polite) to sit herself on the edge of the bed while I got the commode and she complained about my tone of voice (I was worried about the man so I must've sounded stressed).
The complaint didn't go far because sister realised that more staff should have been on the ward.

Being in hospital is usually very stressful and can make people more rude than they would normally be. It can be horrible being in hospital at the mercy of the staff. Please try to show a little compassion- it's not the patient's fault you are overworked. Complain to the management! If patients get on your nerves that much you are clearly in the wrong job!!

Complaining to the management does nothing. We get told to get on with it. It's always down to money.

Grennie

I would carpet any member of my staff who insulted a patient in that way. I wish you had have reported that but understand that when you are unwell, it is just too much hassle. I would have reacted immediately and directly had that have been brought to my attention.

I overheard one of my student nurses comment in front of patient that her pressure sore smelled worse than soiled cat . I removed her from the room, called in her Nursing school and had her on a disciplinary. Her general conduct hadn't been all that anyway but that was it. Had we ignored it or given a mealy mouthed 'naughty naughty' I have no doubt she'd have been one of these casually cruel staff that do walk the wards sadly.

Not sure it is all down to money. When my son was in hospital the lower grade nurses rushed around whilst the staff nurses spent all day talking at the nurses station. Again, not the patient's fault!

Soiled cat Litter that should have said.

Kudzugirl - The HCA never said it in my hearing, and my mother refused to report it. She told me much worse that happened on that ward to other vulnerable patients, so I doubt anyone would have cared anyway.

Not sure it is all down to money. When my son was in hospital the lower grade nurses rushed around whilst the staff nurses spent all day talking at the nurses station.

I see this a lot. It seems to be more important to tick the boxes, show boss that they are doing the admin and have achieved targets, than actually putting a smile on the face of patients. Staff and management alike need to ask what is more important.

That is terrible Grennie and some of us do still care and would not tolerate that. I am apologetic on behalf of my profession when I hear things like that. I feel ashamed.

You have no need to feel ashamed.

All I want is healthcare staff to realise that some of us on threads like this do complain about nursing staff because they know about real issues from personal experience.

I have personally experienced good and bad nursing care. My mum said the kindest person in the hospital to her was the Sister, and one older HCA. The rest on the ward seemed to see patients as a nuisance and there was no basic good manners there, never mind compassion. My mum actually refused to go into hospital for another operation as she couldn't face being on the ward afterwards.

Maybe we should feel ashamed. Because denial and defensiveness clearly is not working. When people are frightened about going into hospital not because they are frightened of being unwell or by the medical treatment but because they are frightened of how the staff might treat them......There are no words....

Regarding post surgical maternity care, I plan to do my midwifery training. I am passionate that I should become a nurse first as I feel I need a nursing background to underpin midwifery training.

It's all fair enough having a stand-alone midwifery course but pregnancy and birth isn't just about pregnancy and birth. There are other things to take into consideration. With my nursing background I can look at the whole woman holistically and looks out for other non-pregnancy related conditions that can occur. If a woman has a c-section, I know about how to care for a post surgical patient. I know what expectations can be made of them (especially from my experiences on a gynae ward with ladies who have had hysterectomies - they are lucky and get morphine on tap for a day or so after too).

I can't wait to start my midwifery. Got to finish this course first though

I've no idea what our consultants earn tbh, but they are at breaking point too.

Consultants choose to do all the extra lectures, the committees and boards. They do it because it earns them money and because it increases their careers. They charge huge amounts of money for doing so and it is largely ultimately paid for by the NI payer.

www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/doctors/pay-for-doctors/

Consultants can earn a basic salary of between £75,249 and £101,451 per year - that's BASIC. Responsibility is not their strong point either -a nurse is at as greater risk of loss of earnings if someone reports them as they come into contact with more people. Consultants have professional indemnity insurance etc and it takes a lot for them to get struck off.

Sorry that was @ Hotdog

The trust I bank again has the cost of all the equipment in all the stock cupboards to try to guilt the staff into using less. Not sure if it works.

My training trust has just started publishing staff ratios daily on each ward along with who is in charge that day. We have always had boards saying who is working in which bay each day so have always really had that anyway but it's a more obvious sign by the entrance.

Good for you Meerkat. A relative of mine is doing her MW training and I am always banging on at them to really know their Anat/Phys and to not do the 'I'm not a Nurse' thing to the point where it can impact negatively upon what they leave their minds open to experiencing and learning.

MeerKat, you do know that they teach you all of that stuff on the midwifery course? IV maintenance, recovery care, etc as well non applied a&p.

The women I trained with who'd been nurses first reckoned that their nurse training didnt give them any advantage. In fact they said they thought it was a lot harder as they only had 18 months to do it. So they were just starting as we were already fairly confident with supporting women in labour, etc.

In 8 years I've never felt that been a nurse first would have helped.

Bear in mind consultants also practice privately too... So in reality earn a hell of a lot more than that.

Every midwife I've spoken too, including one of my best friends mum, and some I've met on my nursing course have advised me to do my nursing first. I also feel I would benefit. Plus I have a lot more grounding to do more with my nursing as well. I do love nursing and would be more than happy being a nurse for the rest of my life, however, my heart is in midwifery. I have no idea where my career may lead. I'm doing at least a year to consolidate. I may find my dream job and stay. Who knows lol.

Reading the OP's post, I transferred all the "patient complaints" to being small children all asking for help in a nursery. To me, that's the job. If you're dealing with ill elderly people, people who have dementia or suffering from side effects then elderly patients will seem "needy". They're ill and in hospital.

I think the main issue is under staffing. My mum (termed elderly at 75) died as a result of understaffing in 2012. At night she needed to go to the toilet, the nearest nurse said "Wait there, there is some spilt water and I'll get this patient to the toilet THEN come." My mum told her not to worry, she'd be ok. She slipped as she got up and fell and broke her hip and femur.

Her experience after that pure accident was appalling. On other wards she was treated cruelly and with neglect. I sent a long list of complaints of neglect (things like her not having had a wash all day including hands when she had diarrhoea to falling in the bathroom when sent on her own.) But then when she was in a care home I had to put in complaints......she was left at a sink balanced against it, another time they just forgot to give her some tea, and finally whenever one staff nurse was on duty she didn't receive her pain killers - they said she used to refuse them which was frankly b***s.

My experience of seeing through the complaints procedure was unsurprisingly that the staff wouldn't admit anything, covered up and ALL accused my mum of lying or misunderstanding or being confused. Sorry OP - I am just giving one experience of four wards, and three homes in several months. Well my mum died - and the inquest found it was actually the illness she was admitted with that killed her......except when she fell they stopped investigating that as she was moved from medical to surgical. Our NHS suffers from a lack of communication, understaffing and people's low morale so that many nurses seem to have lost the compassion of basic nursing as they meet their targets.