To think NHS do gooders need to realise that the patient is not always right

[oggieogggie]

I've had a right few weeks of it. I'm an auxilliary nurse and my morning normally starts by taking breakfasts around the ward. Picture the scene if you will - a trolley full of cereal, bowls and milk and a pot of hot porridge.

I walk into room one = "would you like breakfast this morning?" patient (full mental capacity) says "well before all that I'd like you to fix my TV. I cant get the channel to turn over." I say "well I'll see to that after breakfast, would you like some cereal?" he says "not until my TV is fixed ... can't you just do it, it will only take a minute (so everyone else should wait until YOUR TV is functioning before they get their breakfast and you don't see that as selfish at all?) I don't say this - I remain professional.

Imagine a few more patients who decide that their TV/Slippers/Laptop chargers etc are more important and then the unfortunate patients who receive cold porridge as a result -

Next I take a tray of hot toast around = One patient demands "I want it buttering and cutting into thin strips." I explain that she will either have to press the buzzer for someone else to come and do it or wait until I have finished delivering toast before it gets cold. "But I want it NOW!" she demands. Ok, so it's fine that everyone else will receive cold toast? that's ok with you is it?

Imagine more of the same throughout the day

"I can't get my phone working!" = well I'm taking care of a rather ill patient at the moment, it will have to wait." "that's it!! I'm making a complaint!!"

"I want you to wash me." = "I will help you but you have to wash what you can yourself." = "why?? its what you get paid for!!!" no actually - I get paid to help people back to independence and to care for those who genuinely can't do it themselves ... " - "Ive had no sleep!! I want you to wash me! I can barely move I'm in so much pain!!" (well walking down the stairs for a fag 10 minutes ago must have been agony then eh?)

I'm sorry, but could it not be said that sometimes, just sometimes certain patients are not always right and that as staff members we should not live in fear of one of these people complaining that we're not jumping through hoops to keep them happy? And no I've never had a complaint against me - I do that nursey thing of taking the abuse and maintaining a smile. Just lately I can't quite shake the notion that the NHS (and Britain in general) is so bothered about political correctness and ultimate customer satisfaction that it's actually counter productive. Why are we all so polite??!

The problem is, something has to give.

Going back to the OP, those comments about the TV and buttering toast (for someone who can do it, but won't, because it's our job) are the things that have to give.

Keeping patients safe, fed, clean and receiving the appropriate medical treatment is the most important part of their care.

Hearing stories from some patients, nurses even fail on that.

But thats not because they are lazy. Its because of the workload.

Nothing should have to 'give'. Management have to sort it out instead of forcing patients and nurses to suffer. Most people would pay more tax to cover better quality care. There is no excuse for management here. They are passing the buck down the line instead of speaking out. Cowardly and dishonourable behaviour.

Nurses are NOT responsible for the failures of a doctor to follow procedure Windy. You are misinformed about the respective roles of all the NHS employees you mentioned. A nurse is not responsible for ensuring a doctor does what he is supposed to do. We are not their hand maidens.

A nurses responsibility is to your daughter. We cannot hand over certain aspects of care to family members because if something goes wrong WE are still accountable. I am accountable for the actions of my staff members and ward even when I am on a beach on the other side of the world just as they are accountable for their individual practice.

If your daughter had have fell off the trolley or you had put the notes down somewhere and forgotten to pick them up it would be MY neck on the block- my hard won career.

Talk about confirmation bias- your posts reek of it.

We know that 'nothing should have to give' horsetowater.

But until someone at the top listens and takes action, apart from raising our concerns and complaining, there is not much else we can do.

We can't just walk out in protest. Where would that leave the patients?

Could you explain confirmation bias please.

If the nurse is entirely responsible for a child's care then can you explain why I was left with syringes full of oral painkillers to give to my child through the night. She was not checked once during the night by a nurse - I was entirely responsbible for looking after her. I was also left with the view that it would be completely negligent for any parent to leave their child in the care of NHS staff and would never ever leave a child of mine when in the care of an NHS hospital. I witnessed nothing that would make me trust them. So it seems it's OK not to check a child through the night but a nurse is required to accompany a trolley. I find it rather offensive that as a mere parent I couldn't be trusted to carry my child's notes to be perfectly honest. I think I'm far more responsible about notes and important things than the average nurse remembers running after HV with her pad and scarf after first visit to house when ds was born. Further pregnant women keep their notes and are responsible for them so how is that so but one can't be responsible for taking care of one's child's notes in hospital? This is making me very cross now.

We aren't allowed to give you your child's notes as you aren't allowed to read them. Yes you can apply to look at them with a member of staff but until then they are confidential. They may be about your dd but they are still confidential. Your maternity notes are about you.

How do you know they didn't check on your dd all night? Were you awake all night? Did they just leave the pain relief on the table or something? If your dd had broken her leg them they should have been doing regular neurovascular observations as well as general nursing assessments like 4 hourly obs etc.

Pobble, um, not to speak for NeartheWindyMill, but whenever I've spent a night in hospital next to a child, sleep was definitely not high on the agenda, so I would certainly know exactly how many obs were or were not done! Quite often because the nurse in question turned the strip lights on too, just for good measure

Yes I was awake all night and yes they did just leave the medicine for me to administer and no I don't think they were understaffed. As my dd wasn't checked duriing the night and as she and another patient received minimal attention the next day (after surgery) I don't understand why the nurse had to come and why the porter couldn't look after the notes. It was an indefensible waste of time in a system supposed to be at its limits. She had a spiral tib and fractured fib which just escaped pins and plate. I was appalled at the standard of care to be honest. The doctors and radiography and theatre staff were fabulus but the nuraing on the ward was disgraceful and yes I did complain a d received an NHS double speak response. My dad died in the same hospital and experiences were similar.

I'm sorry near but it's policy, and it's in the patient's best interest.
For one, neither you nor the porter are allowed to hold the notes.
For two, if something would have happened I'm sure you'd be the first to complain.

We escort patients, it's for their safety. It is not a waste of time, especially if you've been on the end of an emergency like I have. I'm sure they thought it was a waste of time until the patient stopped breathing.

Oh so it's OK to have a policy where parents administer medicine, nurses don't carry out checks or provide care but have to spend an hour to carry notes. I'm sure it's harder work to check the patient and give medicine than it is to wander up corridors, have a sit and hold notes. I'm sorry but I'm still not getting it. Can u answer the other questions please?

Pobble, if the notes are for an under 18, parents have been allowed to read them since the 1998 Data Protection Act came in.

Nursey - I have already explained all that to windy. She chooses to ignore the explanations.

I would never turn the light on to do obs, that's what pen torches are for! Although I might put the bedside light on low to do IV medication.

Near if you were ignored and didn't get good care then that isn't acceptable. Some parents are happy to give their kids their medication, as know they'll take it, especially the long termers who like to get on with it. You obviously weren't and that's fine and you shouldn't have been left with them. After all it's the nurse signing to say they've been given.

However I do feel like you blame nurses for pretty much everything. We aren't allowed to push the trollies, that's the porter's job. They transfer the patients. That's not the nurse's fault. Neither are we allowed to give you the notes because it's the law. They aren't just trying to piss you off as you seem to think. Please stop tarring us with the same job because you had a bad experience. I'm sorry you did, but stop thinking it means we all don't care.

Equally the nurses on this thread are answering selectively. Thank you boffin I was going to say that whilst I accompany my child the staff are not in loco parentis and therefore infrmation relating to my child is not confidential.

But do you not see how "the nurse isn't allowed to push a trolley" "the porter can't carry notes" when it is claimed the service is at breaking point comes across nursey?

Yes you can read the notes but you have to apply through the hospital to do it.

Pobble - in our local hospital it is routine to carry your own notes down to X-ray. Don't know where you get the idea from that it's illegal ...

The charts with obs and care plans you can read whoever you like.

But do you not see how "the nurse isn't allowed to push a trolley" "the porter can't carry notes" when it is claimed the service is at breaking point comes across nursey

Yes of course I see that, but it is not just about the nurse pushing the trolley and porter carrying notes, it's the safety of a patient in a bed who may need help - help that the patient parent nor the porter will be able to give.

We just can't win can we.

But you could win if communication was better. If you walked into a shop and wanted to be served and two shop assistants were talking about their boyfriends but you found your own items and then took them to the till and were shouted at because you didn't have the right money, you would feel cross. No? That's ow it feels in hosptals and I'm sorry but it isn't the doctors who make me feel like that. Can you perhaps see the analogy and how nursing staff come over as jobs worths. Now tell me why the nurse couldn't have explained that, especially wjen the porter baited her. She was happy to chat about her buikding work, but not about the job and what was going on.

Near - I'm sure the nurse did have 'more important' things to do on the ward than carry notes to and from the xray department.

She probably missed someone's medication, or stayed on an extra hour to catch up on the notes. There is a lot more going on that what you see in front of you.

As for the other parts of your post re neglecting the other child, no-one on this thread can answer that because they weren't there. No-one is saying its acceptable or it didn't happen etc.

Complaints regarding poor care should be reported.

Something tells me that even if she did explain this to you, it still wouldn't have been a good enough answer.....

I get the impression that nothing would be good enough and that's it's always the nurse's fault regardless of the situation.

near you don't have any idea of how escorting for patients works evidently, so you are not to judge.

I'm quite sure the nurse would have stayed on the ward if she could - I know of situations where I would have been much better used on the ward but had to escort patients.

I'm sorry but I can judge because it is the mismanagement of public funds when often patients are being neglected and not properly cared for. And Pobble I'm afraid although it might irk you to hear it, but insofar as the care of my children is concerned, only excellent or outstanding is good enough and that is something about which I will not compromise whether the NHS likes it or not. Standards have eroded yet still we are supposed to be grateful for an inadequate service and standard of care. If those within won't speak up then those without have to.