to think it's inconsiderate to travel in the quiet coach with small children

[someonestolemynick]

That, really.

I make a point of sitting in the quiet coach, where available in order to be able to work, read or just be alone with my own thoughts.

Today I'm joined by a young family with a baby. Of course, the baby starts crying whenever we go through a tunnel. Arrrgh! I know children make noice, hence KEEP.THEM.OUT.OF.THE.QUIET.ZONE.

AIBU?

The clue is in the name 'quiet coach'. It's supposed to be quiet. If it's difficult to tell whether you're in the quiet coach or not when booking, this should be addressed with the relevant company. YANBU.

"Those of you who say you didn't realise that you were in a Quiet Zone before you sat down, or you were allocated a seat there against your will, then bloody move if you don't want to be tutted and glared at"

I think a quiet coach should be quiet. I do not think not should have children in it.

I do not think I and my two small children should have been allocated seats in the quiet coach, and I think the train company should let me exchange those reservations without charging me more money. They will not.

I will not be dashing up and down the train with two small children and luggage to look for empty seats, which was the train company's helpful suggestion.

So, any ideas?

Reginald - it is to do with your self importance, I'm afraid. Sorry.

If someone specifically chooses the Quiet Coach, it's because they want and expect quiet. It's not overly exacting, it doesn't mean they hate people/children. It just means they want quiet for that journey.

Thank you for saying this OnlyLovers I was beginning to think I'd gone mad: that expecting quiet in the Quiet Coach made me:
a child-hater
rude
a people-hater
self-important
a cow

Unfortunately, from some of the posts on this thread, I can see where the general rudeness towards other passengers who simply ask for quiet in the Quiet Coach comes from ...

I quite often travel by train with my two; 2y and 7m. We always book beforehand as I get extremely travel sick and therefore need to have forward facing seats. I'm always really anxious anyway about where our seats will be in case I can't see out of a window, or the seats turn out to actually be rearward facing (this happens a lot ). We quite frequently find we're booked into the quiet carriage as their is no option to book that you're not. You can specify which carriage you want to be in, even which seat within that carriage, but it doesn't tell you which one will be the quiet one.

Once I'm on that train, as long as my seats are forward facing, I'm not moving. I'll do my level best to keep my children quiet (would do that anyway, and they're usually pretty good) but I'm not going to go wandering up and down a busy, moving train with two children and luggage. I'd probably throw up before I found a seat, and I'm sure that would be a lot more disruptive!

I do not think it* should have children in it.

Frankly with birgin's booking system you are fortunate if they put you in the same carriage with your children.

I've never been rude to other passengers btw - nor would I be - I've actually never had anyone complain/tut etc. One nice lady in the quiet carriage actually offered to take DS2 for a few minutes so I could change DS1's nappy

Ubik1, I see no evidence of self-importance in Reginald's posts.

However, this from you

'It only means you can't use your mobile. And frankly I couldn't give a toss about your previous expectations of who is allowed to travel in the ridiculous 'quiet coach'

is pretty self-important, as well as incorrect. Quiet Coach means keeping ALL noise to a minimum, not just phones and music. And if you 'couldn't give a toss' about other passengers then that says a great deal more about your inflated sense of your own rights than about someone who just wants it to be quiet in the Quiet Coach they have booked to sit in.

Perhaps they should just rename it 'might be quiet' coach or 'aiming for quiet' seats.

So, any ideas?

Yes, complain to your train company.

Ubik1 I find it extremely bizarre that I'm calling for other people to respect the wishes of the entire carriage (not just mine), and you're telling me and everyone else on the quiet carriage, that your wishes or your blatant disregard for our wishes, are more important. Inflated ego? Check.

It's not about wanting a reasonable train journey, it's the idea that children shouldn't be in the sacred quiet carriage. It seems an incredibly precious point of view fir what is just a train journey.

I get irritated because I use the cross country services provide by Virgin and have experienced some terrible journeys. The hallowed 'quiet carriage' is usually the least of my concerns, when s recreations are cancelled due to computer problems, finding people in reserved seats who refuse to move, taking three you children and luggage up narrow aisle to find more seats, find quiet coach and fir children around carriage so they gave seats, spend next five hours going up and down aisle providing snacks, toilets breaks, magazines etc

Believe me, you think you are having a dreadful journey look around at the parents.

I don't think there's anything wrong with quiet children being in the quiet coach. Not all children are loud.

Part of the problem is that train companies have attempted to respond to a demand they are unable to realistically meet. I doubt there is an algorithm train companies can use that would seperate people out by the amount of noise they make and still maximise train capacity without charging more for the quiet coach. Charging extra might be a way to go, but then expectations would be even higher and they would need to police that onboard, which might not be something they feel capable of. This is partly what many people assumed they were paying for with first class, but as passengers travelling first class have diversified it has become less of a guarentee.

It's also the case that when it does "work" a quiet carriage will polarize the amount of noise a passenger is exposed to according to the carriage they are sat in - the quiet passengers will tend towards the quiet coach, leaving a greater density of louder passengers in the other coaches, which increases the volume in those coaches. What about the niether quiet nor loud passengers? They are now in a louder environment, there are no "normal volume coaches" so they will need to choose between a quiet coach when they aren't quiet and a pretty loud coach when they aren't pretty loud. For some people (especially children) loud noise is overwhelming. So they are now more likely to be exposed to a significantly louder level of noise because the "quiet passengers" have pushed all that annoyance from their own space and concentrated it in everyone elses.

I don't think this is enough of an argument against having quiet coaches, but it illustrates that quiet coaches are not some kind of natural right where the only impact of people splitting up is that a few people are allowed to get on with work. It impacts the rest of the passengers too so violation of quiet coach etiquette isn't simply about people being inconsiderate of the "quiet" people, since everyone else on the train is absorbing the noise those quiet people are avoiding.

Believe me, you think you are having a dreadful journey look around at the parents.

Yes, but you chose to be a parent. I understand that you may have a tough journey with your children, but I don't understand where you get the right to inconvenience others because you're having a tough trip, or things aren't going your way. It's not a knock-on effect. You chose to have children, you chose to take a trip with them on the train, but the other people on the train didn't. It's a shared space, and it works best when everyone agrees to contribute towards the greater good, rather than saying, "Well, my journey is shite, so fuck everyone else on this train too!"

I don't have blatant disregard for anyone's wishes. I'll sit in the quiet coach with my children. I won't use mobile phone.

Well you choose to take public transport.

I really object to this idea that children are a choice that is so outside the norms of society that parents must protect society from all impact a child could have on others. Children are people and a necessary part of a healthy society. They are no less entitled to having their needs and desires catered to in public than others. Some of their needs are greater, but that is in part because we often set our norms by solely adult standards.

I do, which means I choose to abide by the rules (or "suggestions") for the benefit of everyone else.

Yes, I would love to maximise the time I spend commuting, and could save loads of time in the morning if I chose to perform half of my beauty routine on the train, but I don't for the sake of others. There are times where I want to chat with someone so I don't have to do it when I get home, but I don't because it's rude.

As many posters have said (and as the train companies themselves say), it's not just about mobile phone usage. It's about noise levels. If your children can be quiet, great, you're welcome to sit there. If not, don't be a dick to everyone else.

We don't all "choose". I have to travel by train once a week to work as my company won't pay the costs for me to drive. I don't think there are any quiet coaches on my train though.

parents must protect society from all impact a child could have on others.

No, I'm not saying hide your children from public view, but I am saying that you should be considerate, and that having a child does not excuse you from being a decent person when you're in public. No one else thinks it's cute when your child runs around hitting people in a restaurant. No one else is amused when your child is jumping up and down on the seats (taking up a whole row of seats to themselves, as well as putting their feet all over the cushions). If you have children, you should teach them by example as to how to conduct yourself in public.

BoomBooms, people who want to travel in the Quiet Coach want to be 'protected' for the duration of the journey from disruptive noise from a variety of sources, including phones and loud adult talking, not just disruptive noise from children. That's not unreasonable.

I really don't see any evidence on here that anyone finds children to be 'outside the norms of society', nor that anyone thinks they are not 'people and a necessary part of a healthy society.' I've said it what feels like innumerable times, but I'm happy to say it again: I do not hate children and I do not think children shouldn't talk/laugh/play music on a train. Neither do I hate adults and I don't think adults shouldn't talk/laugh/play music on a train. I just expect people in a clearly advertised Quiet Coach to be quiet.

I can't believe that the idea of being quiet in a quiet coach is so controversial! And why upthechimney is getting so much flack for pointing this out I do not know.

Children are not banned from the quiet coach...we are not breaking any rules by sitting there. And yes they will make noise occasionally because they are children. But I have paid for, and reserved seats for all of us (even though I don't have to for children aged under five) and on the quiet coach we will sit, if that is where we are put.

I use the quiet coach and even though dd is the youngest now at 10 I would have used it when they were little.
A train is public transport not an office for you to do your work.
Children do make noise and adults do talk, you have to get used to this on public transport.
Anybody can use these seats and when the train is packed they can be the noisiest carriage anyway.

Ubik I didn't say you weren't allowed to sit there with children... However, if you are making noise whilst sat there, yes you are breaking rules. Occasional noise? Would it be acceptable in a church/library setting? Then fine, no big deal. Otherwise, if you'd take your child out of a church service for making the same noise, then do the same in the Quiet Carriage.

It's not difficult, so please stop acting like such a pariah.