To applaud Justine MN

[cerseissword]

for her put down to LJ printed in today's DM www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2587124/LIZ-JONES-If-trolls-joy-I-wake-scared-day.html

Thumbwitch

I din't know that. I shouldn't be on thisnthread really. I'm likely to talk rubbish

bluepen

No, I am not The Poster!

I just read the recent article, is all.

Since Liz Jones' writing apparently does not harm her career, I genuinely cannot conceive of anything that possibly would.

The fact is she can't be that arsed about it since she's just brought it to the attention of thousands more people.

I didn't even know about it till I read the article.

Newt!

And Boulevarde - true enough!

See, MrsDV - I reckon she has plenty of insight and knows exactly what buttons to press, what will make good DM copy, get some page clicks and get her fans commenting.

So she knew that complaining to Justine would either get her some £££ or a nice article slagging off women / women of MN / someone else. Win win, really.

Oh dear. Just when some of us had seen her on CBB and thought she might not be so bad after all...

Could I please draw everyone's attention to the tort of "repeat libel", where you can be held liable for repeating an allegation made by somebody else. This includes gossiping on internet forums and Twitter (see this article about it).

English defamation law was reformed last year to strengthen the defences you can make against a charge of libel. I am not a lawyer, but as I understand it, the burden of proof in a libel case still rests with the defendant. In other words, if you are accused of defaming someone, it is up to you to prove that you did not.

So mind how you go.

i read the liz jones thingy/bit in the actual real life paper (as opposed to online) and it was tucked away in the bottom left hand side of a page, so not exactly drawing any attention to it.

i feel quite sorry for her if all she's got to do is get riled about stuff she reads on here. most people in the public eye wouldn't even read this, surely? people on here are so mean about her, if i was her i'd steer well clear.

so what if she did take coke/stock/a chance on me, etc etc. it's hardly headline news.

So some people on here could be in trouble.

And on mumsnet as a whole. Going back 10 years or however long mumsnet has been in existence.

Good link.

Mumsnet ought to put the link into it's talk guidelines.

A repeat of an untrue allegation, could land themselves in trouble.

If your were absolutely certain it couldn't be proved then why wouldn't you immediately sue?

Seems Liz has lost a few cases already, does that mean it can be assumed the allegations were true?

This is a genuine question about the system, not an allegation.

No you cannot assume the allegations are true.

In UK law the burden of proof always lies with the publisher.

So even in the other cases LJ has lost (or anyone else) that still means you can't assume that the libel was actually true hence she lost?

Yet again I am in agreement.

it's a muddy water.

EG the Beckham/Loos affair story. Beckham claimed he would sue but never did. You could assume the reason he didn't sue was because the story was true.

However, when publications write about it they usually say 'his alleged affair with Rebecca Loos' to cover their backs.

If someone sued for libel unsuccessfully then most publications would feel happy about assuming the story to be true.

Liz Jones is quite a contradiction. My close friend knows her quite well. LJ makes a living out of writing provocative articles designed to provoke reaction and has made herself a figure of fun and hate. On the other side of her personality she is actually very knowledgeable about her subject, fashion, and has personally raised £1,000's for charity.

There are a number of reasons why someone might not sue for libel, even if the allegation made against them was false. One issue is cost: as far as I am aware, you cannot get legal aid to pay for a lawyer to prepare your case/ represent you in court. This means it is often extremely difficult for the average person to bring a case, especially if the person/ entity making the allegation is rich. It is not unheard of from complainants to have to drop a case part-way through because the defendant's lawyers have succeeded in delaying proceedings for so long that the complainant runs out of money.

Just read Jones in MoS and my jaw dropped to the floor! WELL DONE Justine, for putting her firmly in her place. And while India Knight may have been a little over the top on her famous comment, well done her too!

Can't believe the hypocrisy of Jones - she says awful things about people - Clare Balding, Kirsty Allsop, her own sisters, innocent residents of the place she used to live, and all the others. Makes disparaging comments about her boyfriend's fingernails and aroma of nicotine ... in this last case, she whines that he emails her worried about messages from anxious customers - they're anxious because of what SHE wrote for God's sake!

No surprise she hates MN - she hates all mothers. Frankly, I'm surprised she's allowed to get away with what she does by the Mail group. I'm a retired journalist - my editor would have shown me the door pronto if I'd ever dared write the stuff Jones does.

I've not read the whole thread, just the smackdown, but good on Justine.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of what was posted, it's a good point well made.

Im not familiar with any of the names involved in what seems to be a cat fight, but to falsely accuse someone of taking drugs is beyond the pale and downright nasty. I think I'd want to die if someone said it about me. Ive never been near an illegal drug in my life, the thought of them horrifies me and scares me rigid. I dont for moment think I'm alone I this, maybe its generation thing, I really dont know - one thing is certain however and that is how horrible it must be to have this said about you if its not true.

But in that case LJ has repeat-libelled herself, as she repeated the allegation in her national column...

At a New Year’s Eve party, I couldn’t understand why a group of friends were asking if I was OK, how awful it must have been.

How awful what must have been? It turned out that one of their group had posted on Mumsnet, using a pseudonym, that she had seen me taking cocaine at a Bonfire Night party.

So, the apparent libellous comment was posted by one of a group of her friends??