To think schools should do more to boost our DCs' confidence

[phonebox]

Disclaimer: I'm no expert on what most schools currently do to help shy children, but just going off what I have witnessed.

I was cripplingly shy as a child and adolescent and know that it has really delayed my career. DP is the same; and I'm worried about our DCs heading down the same path. I can't help but notice that all the more extrovert, confident and socially bright schoolmates of mine have all had a headstart on their careers as it were, and although DP and I were given all the best academic opportunities at school, we feel stunted by our early lack of self-confidence. Even now, I feel disadvantaged by my nervousness and lack of social polish in the workplace.

I know I would trade-off some of my academic success for more confidence to speak up for myself. And I would likely be far better off for it now.

With qualifications becoming less valued in favour of work experience (which IMO is greatly aided by a bucketload of networking), AIBU to think schools should be showing shyer children the benefits of networking and maybe having weekly interview skills lessons or similar, all the way from primary school upwards?

Or do they already do this, and just aren't plugging the benefits enough?

was a great teacher.

How much do people expect from schools?

Pretty pleased on the whole - with a few minor exceptions - on how my DC rather large primary have helped my shy quiet DC develop in confidence. They have a very friendly atmosphere and very approachable teaching staff and many TA and supportive parents.

They get opportunities to do things but aren't forced.

My DS did have it very hard in his reception class - very large class and some very dominate personalities. The teaching staff did have strategies for coping with that and giving everyone a change - and then mixed the two year classes so there were more balanced.

Shyness often had a very strong genetic basis. It's how you deal with it. My DH is very shy but his parents handle it in such as way that it's often not noticeable - my parents were super critical and they and the school told me I was too sensitives and too quiet - a lot making me very self conscious and much more introverted.

I do get confidence and assertiveness are very useful - and lacking them is a hindrance IME. However as a parent I do wish school had the time to focus on the basic reading, writing , basic maths as I seem to have to do a lot of this at home - rather than all the other stuff more nebulous stuff that gets thrown at schools.

I am at a point in my career where my total inability to give presentations etc is blocking progress. I really wish they had done stuff to do with standing up and talking at my school - it is an essential skill these days.

I am really pleased that the school the DDs attends do show & tell from reception, and they also get them up at assembly sometimes. They seem much more confident about this sort of thing than I ever was and I hope it remains that way (they are small).

FWIW I don't really think this is a skill that can be taught at home - standing up and talking about something to your family is very different than to colleagues (classmates) or others.

We have a nurture room in our infant school, they make toast, play games, very high helper to child ratio

Some children are completely changed by the experience, you wouldn't recognise them as the same children

I wish it had been there when my now 15 year old was at the school, he would have been a prime candidate for it

I'm with Gert, most of the way. No teacher deliberately ignores the quiet kid - even the most tired/cynical/bad teacher knows that a quiet kid will get them downgraded in observations, so the worst case scenario is we jolly that kid into joining in - how is entirely dependent on what kind of teacher you are

NiceTabard said that it isn't a skill that can be taught at home, right, but it can be taught FROM home. School should never be the only place a kid socialises.

Please don't drop this in the lap of the teachers and leave it there. We can't do it all and I am afraid that your kid and its social skills, like manners and the ability to tie it's own laces, are your responsibility! But we will do all we can to help!

I am at a point in my career where my total inability to give presentations etc is blocking progress. I really wish they had done stuff to do with standing up and talking at my school - it is an essential skill these days.

My DH is a HE lecture - but first few times he had to give talk to peer at PhD level he was so bad he was sick before hand. He got support from his supervisor and distraction before going on - the more practice he got better it was now most days his talking in front of large number of people and apparently thought very good at it. So there is hope.

My shy DC have had talking parts in the school plats often with other DC with them at same time - my eldest now volunteers to talk in assemblies - this from a DC who didn't speak really till after first half term at school.

However I endure standing up and talking in assemblies at school - but I don't think they were handle very well and they made me more nervous about doing stuff like that not less. Teasing afterwards from peers, critical comments and pressure from the adults involved. Yet being part of an orchestra outside of school and performing on stage I could cope with.

Would clubs outside of school help.

Schools really can't win. On one hand they're criticised for not doing enough to build confidence, and on the other they're regularly criticised for the 'prizes for all' culture that often prevails at sports days and awards ceremonies.

Even Y3 pupils know that everyone will get Star of the Week at some point, and that we're not allowed to use a red pen or put a cross next to an incorrect answer.

If you're specifically talking about the ability to confidently deliver a speech, as some posters seem to be, then this is what secondary schools are encouraging every time pupils are asked to present their findings in a PowerPoint presentation, particularly in the Speaking & Listening strand of GCSE English.

I think the schools input is important but not essential. We focus on helping our children develop close friendships, find things they are good at out of school and promote activities that foster self confidence (eg drama, martial arts).

We are currently living in Australia and the system here is definitely beneficial to confidence. The schools have a merit system where everyone gets recognised once in each school year by being given a certificate in front of the whole school plus parents (usually 400 plus students). Students also are expected to get up and contribute in assemblies from the age of 5. It is amazing to watch and v positive for the children.

I don't know where your kids go to school but at my dds school they have definately worked their arses off to help their charges with confidence. They've had them performing their plays since reception and it's been lovely to see them go from shy quiet reception children to children who just performed in front of hundreds of people.

I'm sure school is doing their best but you may well have to accept that's just how ur child is.

I think our primary school is very good generally. The only criticism I would have is that the majority of the teachers won't differentiate for childrens' needs, eg my dd (aged 9) has SEN, and although she gets excellent remedial help now (just as of this year!) she has never ever got a 'star' for her Friday test, as she has never got 100% (and never will). I wish the teacher got give her a star the weeks that it is clear she has worked very hard (some weeks she doesn't work very hard to be fair). It upsets dd that she is the only child in the class with no stars on her chart from September, when the most of the class have 10/15 or more. I just think little things like that can really knock their confidence, and undo all the other hard work the school are doing to build their self esteem. However I do appreciate this may sound like a minor gripe to most, and I genuinely deeply appreciate the teacher's hard work.

phonebox, I really think you are asking the impossible here. You seem to be asking for schools to be able to change a pupil's personality; to make a shy person a not-shy person. I really don't see how they can.

"AIBU to think schools should be showing shyer children the benefits of networking and maybe having weekly interview skills lessons or similar, all the way from primary school upwards?"
When? What would you drop from what they currently do, to make time for this? If you think your children would benefit from this, couldn't you do it at home?

I think the school input is equally important because many children are assertive and confident at home with parents. It when in the company of non family members that they become tongue tied and unsure of themselves.

I think it's unfair to lump all schools and all teachers in together. It' much more complex than that. I teach Performing Arts in a bog standard comp. I see kids in my classes blossom. I have kids in school plays singing and speaking in front of hundreds of people. They learn just as much from the rehearsals as from the performances. I always get kids to perform in full school assemblies - they hate that, because it's their harshest audience, but they do it and they feel proud of themselves. I have kids being presenters for end of term assemblies, performing on presentation evenings and in school events.

BUT every time, without exception, parents and teachers of other subjects tell me "gosh, I never expected that of XXX" Teachers will say "but he/she is quiet as a mouse in my lessons" and parents will say "I've never seen him/her look so confident"

It's clearly much more complex than "teach a child to be confident"

Teachers do their utmost to make children feel happy and confident but unfortunately there's only so much they can do in the course of the working day. Also, school cannot change someone's basic personality. Teachers don't have the power to make a shy person into a gregarious one.

maybe having weekly interview skills lessons or similar

9.00 - 9.20 RE or PSHE
9.20 - 10.20 Literacy
10.20 - 10.40 Break & playtime
10.40 - 11.40 Numeracy
11.40 - 12.10 Phonics
12.10 - 1.00 Lunch, playtime & lunchtime clubs
1.00 - 2.00 Topic (science, geography, history) or PE or Music or Art or IT depending on the day
2.00 - 2.40 Guided Reading
2.40 - 2.55 Break (if time permits)
2.55 - 3.15 Library or Story or Show & tell
3.15 - 3.25 Information for next day & get home things sorted
Hometime

In this typical primary school day, where is the time for weekly skills sessions? What would you drop from the curriculum OP?

Agree that the school and teaching staff therein can't miraculously change your DC's personality. How exactly do you suggest they make your son more confident? If you can't manage it how are they supposed to?

OP, I am a teacher and I agree with your points. I have taught in both state and private, and the difference in the children's confidence levels is very pronounced. Perhaps it has something to do with the smaller class sizes at independent schools.
I can also empathise as a parent, as my eldest (12) has far less confidence than her younger siblings. It seems to be something they're born with, rather than something we can overtly teach.

not all children stay shy children and not all bouncy confident children become confident adults either!

IME schools so do lots and lots of work on boosting children's self esteem and confidence, but the main input comes from home.

If it's something you feel has held you back OP, then from birth, I'd have thought it would be down to you (both) as Parents to make it a priority in the way you bring up your dc, not leave it to the school.

Standing up in class once or twice in primary isn't enough to keep presentation skills great say in your twenties or thirties. Presentation skills are also very different than a personal social confidence, which many of my private school students do possess.

There is only one way to get good at presentations, that's to do lots of them and to practice endlessly at home. Most people are crap as they avoid it as I used to do!

I wouldn't focus on presentations personally, that's a very specific skill and something you can learn as an adult with practice- I think instilling social confidence, being articulate, not being afraid to ask for help and so on. I'm amazed at how many people talk for their children, for example, if mine get asked a question, I don't answer for them even if we have to sit there for a few moments while they think what to say.

Even now, I feel disadvantaged by my nervousness and lack of social polish in the workplace

YABU

I was paralysingly shy and an academic achiever. I grew up, took responsibility for myself, faked confidence until I could do it for real. It's not the schooling system's job to do things that your parents didn't do for you, or that you can't do for yourself now.

Grow up and get over it. It can be done with a bit of initiative and determination. It's not easy but you can do it, rather than blame other people.

Giving presentations/public speaking can be seen as things that it's ok to be bad at. Depending on where you live/work, people can see it as more unusual to be confident in standing up and saying your piece. I work for a large public body, and the number of managers who won't speak in public or even contribute to group discussions is unreal. Never mind the general staff who have never been expected to give presentations or express an opinion in 30 years of working!

I also once read an article on careers advice that was addressing the interview question 'what are your strengths and weaknesses?'. It suggested that you said public speaking as a weakness, but added that you were aware of this and trying to improve! That tells me that it's perceived to be okay to be crap at public speaking, which I think is clouding the issue. If society thinks it's ok, then it's no wonder people spend all their lives thinking they can't do it, that it's scary and difficult and so on.

I grew up scared of public speaking because both my parents were. Interestingly, both have improved a lot as they got older and had to do it at work/social events. I'm not naturally introverted, but I saw public speaking as something terrifying - learned behaviour. Then I had to do heaps of presentations at work and went from being petrified beforehand to actually enjoying them.

I agree that home attitude is a major factor in children's confidence. I also agree that it's important at school - even just things like encouraging an open discussion and not allowing children to take the piss out of someone else's opinion. Most schools do this anyway, as well as providing opportunities for public speaking. So on balance I think it's something you should start off at home and schools allow your kids to practice in front of a wider audience.

You can learn how to speak in public. There is a set of skills which can be broken down quite simply & technically. Or you can analyze what people who are good at public speaking do.

It's not rocket science. Breathing in a controlled way, practising speaking clearly (practise reading aloud), looking people in the eyes, standing up straight & trying to keep still.