Term time holidays/Striking teachers.

[vexedfoxy]

Am I being unreasonable when I become exercised when I hear parents are fined for taking their children out of school in term time for holidays (when perchance they cannot take time off work in school holidays) and then I hear teachers planning to go on strike...how does one beat the square of 'every day at school is vital no matter how young the child is' in to a circle when suddenly a teachers salary and conditions over ride this and parents have to take time off work to arrange child care cover. Discuss.

Oh 1 strike actually about the children out of how many about how many about pensions and there pay.

Personally I don't really care for the low aspirations on many schools for children and the excuses used often for poor results, schools have been dire for and age before GOVe ffs I sure he was a handy pasty to blame yet more poor performance on

they will have my respect when the strikes become about the children and not there wages also it really pisses me off the unions refusel to accept that many state schools are shit and that precedes GOVe

I teach Maths and Science. Not enough people want to do the job I do, if we're talking markets. Really hard to find them in fact. And while the educational requirements are set lower, there are probably fewer people with Maths PGCEs chasing Maths teaching jobs than there are people with PhDs chasing lectureships, in many areas at least.

Fusedog, do go away and find out about the reasons for the strikes. They are all about children.

poster Nennypops reallybecause that all you hear teachers talking about money and I swear the letter I received from the school was about there pensions I will re read however I am quite sure it didn't mention classes sizes, the state of the school grounds , the fact they have no playing field the fact that you can't get rid of bad teachers for love nor money which by the way makes there the good teachers job harder

Nope just pensions

Can someone please tell me the last education secretary that the teaching unions did actually like?

I think the self serving teachers are the ones who bleat about not joining unions because they don't want to strike, those who are union members yet refuse to join strike action because they'll lose a day's pay, and those who undermine their colleagues yet are quite happy to accept improvements in pay and conditions that their colleagues actively fought for.

I believe that employment law means the only reasons legally allowed for calling a strike are to do with terms and conditions of employment.

I find it hilarious that people keep saying 'teachers don't get paid if they go on strike'....the milkman does not get paid if he does not deliver the milk or the nurse if she fails to bother to turn up. In other shocking news the sun rose in the east this morning.

Fusedog I suggest you keep up to date and educate yourself. New capability processes came into force last September and it's becoming increasingly common for capability to be imposed very swiftly now.

Totally in favour of the strike, changes to education should be discussed and agreed with those implementing the changes, not forced upon teachers by a jumped up little man who doesn't know what he's talking about. I like the description of Gove as a 'pasty' by the way, very good.

Actually that's not true neither Fusedog. 1) our state school is that oversubscribed that we have a waiting list because it's the only one within miles with an excellent rep. 2). They actually did get rid of a teacher (who was part of a union) only just recently because they were well...getting to be a bit shit.

Very few, one or two, on this thread mentioned that vexed - and then only in response to other posts.

vexed why is it hilarious? It is true. Don't quite get your point about the milkman. The milkman doesn't teach your child 6hours a day.

Exactly Hulababy Goading comes to mind.

Oh - and the independent schools I know do not encourage term time holidays at all. People can't just pull their children out whenever they like for a fortnight in the sun. We are sent letters every year reminding us of the importance of attendance and of the fact that the school has many official holidays - 3 weeks more than state schools - in which holidays should be taken.

I think most teachers would agree that things need to change, but they don't agree with unilaterally changing them without proper research or a solid foundation. Some of his ideas seem to have been written on the back of a beer mat.

Donki I know that is certainly the case for the NHS Protests/Strikes. Can't speak for the teachers ones but if people bothered to look beyond the headlines maybe they'd find out.

some of his ideas seem to have been written on the back of a beermat indeed chicagoapa...now ask the people on this thread who disagree with the strike to list what these ideas are...

Sorry your name got spectacularly autocorrected chica .

I am very upset about the strict crackdown on term-time holidays (hence my chat name!)
Don't mind teachers occasionally striking; they should have the legal right to do that.
So agree with all those who say the 2 have nothing to do with each other.
Although I guess if govt meant its own rhetoric, then govt would go to greater lengths to prevent strikes.

So agree with all those who say the two have nothing to do with each other. Precisely Holidaycriminal. It's just another way of finding to slag them off about something...albeit badly.

Longer days?

Gove thinks standards will rise if kids are in school for longer. Like in Asia. Except over there their curriculum is much narrower and they have all those hours to concentrate on 3 or 4 subjects, so of course they perform much better in them. And the teachers have hours to plan for these lessons instead of the 2 hours they have here.

So he's taken bits of an education system and tried to shoe horn it into ours.

The point about teachers not getting paid for strikes is that this means effectively they are fined for unauthorized term time absence, just like parents. The govt fines us all for unauthorized term time absence so there is no inequality there.

The government don't want kids out on holiday. They also don't want teachers to strike. They don't want children's education to be disrupted. There is no inconsistency between strike action and fines on term time holidays.

Therefore, the opening post is flawed, illogical and very wrong.

Unions are very important as previously explained to prevent the exploitation of workers and they are responsible for the employment laws we all benefit from today in terms of paid holiday, rights, parental leave etc. If throughout history, employees had always attempted to 'talk not walk' you wouldn't be able to take your kids on holiday in the first place because you would have no employee rights to have that time off yourself.

People accuse striking teachers of being selfish. They are selfish as their objections are based solely on the inconvenience of having to organise their own childcare for one day and they can't be bothered to find out about the issues affecting education now and the long-term threat to the quality of their own children's education if teachers do not protest about the changes being proposed.

It's also not selfish to strike about pay and pensions - if these are eroded, this will have a severe impact on the number and quality of people entering the teaching profession. I want my children to have a high quality education - teachers are striking in an attempt to preserve this. Decent pay and pensions is one way to attract and retain good staff.

Also, it's less disruptive for the whole class to miss one day than for half the class to miss different weeks during the summer term in dribs and drabs - surely it's not hard to grasp that?

He also always forgets to mention the high levels of stress and even suicide among children over in those countries too.