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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Term time holidays/Striking teachers.

193 replies

vexedfoxy · 22/03/2014 20:52

Am I being unreasonable when I become exercised when I hear parents are fined for taking their children out of school in term time for holidays (when perchance they cannot take time off work in school holidays) and then I hear teachers planning to go on strike...how does one beat the square of 'every day at school is vital no matter how young the child is' in to a circle when suddenly a teachers salary and conditions over ride this and parents have to take time off work to arrange child care cover. Discuss.

OP posts:
2013go · 22/03/2014 22:42

Yabu to link the two, not sure of the point really. Is there any point whatsoever to the OP? Discuss.

Misspixietrix · 22/03/2014 22:44

School is a place of education. Not free childcare.

NurseyWursey · 22/03/2014 22:45

Well If everyone truly believed that a childs' educational was so vital they couldn't have a day off. Then they wouldn't be taken out for two weeks for an all inclusive in Tuscany would they?

Georgina1975 · 22/03/2014 22:54

The "market" mainly dictates salaries - basic supply and demand. I assume there are fewer people that can do your DHs job than could do yours Euphemia? And/or the entry levels in terms of qualifications are higher?

The basic problem: capitalism is rotten in how opportunity and wealth is distributed. It is intrinsically unfair for the vast majority. No - haven't come up with an alternative yet.

Misspixietrix · 22/03/2014 22:56

It pisses me off Nursey. FWIW I do understand that there are exceptional circumstances. I.e dad on leave from the army - Fine. Also Fine if you want to take DCs out term time and pay the fine. As long as people don't start complaining the moment a strike comes around again. The strike is because Gove won't meet /talk with them. How else are they meant to get his attention? N.b no I'm not a Teacher. I have a Dd with health problems so often in school when other parents not. I've seen what they put up with and we should all be grateful enough that we have a free education to access.

NurseyWursey · 22/03/2014 22:57

The "market" mainly dictates salaries

I don't think this is necessarily true. I think sometimes, some people are taken advantage of. Especially those jobs that are seen as a 'vocation'.

Georgina1975 · 22/03/2014 23:14

Not saying the market is the only factor - it is just the most significant when it comes to wage levels. The market is why, for example, a collegue in India gets paid a lot less for doing the same job as me in the UK.

But the market is unfair, not rationale in the allocation of resources and controlled (as much as it can be) by a self- interested minority. That is why we (the workforce) have to assert ourselves on issues such as pay and t&cs.

But the vocation angle is an insidious weapon used to justify all sorts of political nastiness - for sure.

forceslover · 22/03/2014 23:36

As I asked on another thread, please strike on Fridays, makes for a lovely long weekend!

Applefallingfromthetree2 · 23/03/2014 00:18

I am a teacher and sometimes feel ashamed by the nasty, self serving attitude of some colleagues especially when they are challenged in any way.

Surely whether there is a need for a strike or not could be debated with reasoned argument. Isn't this what we teach the kids!

echt · 23/03/2014 00:27

You say you want reasoned debate, Apple, but don't give examples to support your view of some of your colleagues.

What self-serving attitudes do you mean? How were they challenged and how did they react?

GeorgianMumto5 · 23/03/2014 00:30

YABU. I cannot be bothered with why, because it's so bleeding obvious.

Applefallingfromthetree2 · 23/03/2014 00:47

Echt, plenty of examples in the thread I would say.

IfNotNowThenWhen · 23/03/2014 00:50

I fully support ds's teacher who will be out on strike on Wednesday, even though it will see me out of pocket.
However, somedizzy I really hate this thing I hear sometimes, from teachers on here, and in RL, about how we as parents see teachers as "free childcare", and the old chestnut"its education not childcare"
Actually, state schools were originally set up after child labour laws came in, and after a bunch of reformers decided that children should be in school instead of up chimneys. School as we know it happened because the children had to go somewhere when their parents were at work all day. It was better for society that they were in school than on the streets. So, yes, actually in some regard school IS childcare, and that is why my childminder will be 40 quid to the good this Wednesday.
Just wanted to point that out.
But, yeah, you don't fight for rights, you won't get them.I was out on strike recently (another days pay up in smoke) and I was the only one in my office. I was sort of laughed at for doing it, and the general consensus was "what's the point?". These are the same people to moan when they don't get a pay rise/ management expect unreasonable things/working conditions are shit. But some people just love to tug their forelock and bend right over, so what can you do?

EvilTwins · 23/03/2014 01:06

Apple - I assume you won't be striking then? I hope also that you don't take for granted certain rights (lunch breaks, for example) which were fought for by teachers in the 80s through industrial action. Only a hypocrite would accept the conditions won by striking colleagues and then berate strikers as selfish. Hmm

ravenAK · 23/03/2014 02:07

Can you be a bit more specific, Apple?

I must've missed the self-serving posts.

There are teachers on the thread who have explained why they'll be giving up a day's pay in order to strike on wednesday, there are teachers who disagree with the strike & won't be taking part, & there are some who can't afford to take part or belong to a union which is not striking.

I'm not sure any of the above are 'self-serving' - none of those positions is something you'd choose for selfish reasons.

echt · 23/03/2014 02:07

So say them then, Apple, you raised this point, so follow through why don't you? You cite the need for reasoned debate such as "we teach the kids" and then don't do it yourself. Hmm

Misspixietrix · 23/03/2014 07:26

It is not an 'Old Chestnut' it is fact. If it wasn't for Schools being statutory after the age of 4 we'd have to pay thousands in childcare. I used to do just that. Thankfully. Both DCs are now in Full Time Education. If everyone had to pay for their Child's Education they wouldn't be so quick to drag them out for a quick holiday in Butlins. Also before anyone starts with the 'Education is not Luxury' line of course it bloody is! Try telling that to Malala!

Fusedog · 23/03/2014 07:31

poster Sqveeze

Really I never heard of a teacher striking due to class sizes or that fact that is near impossible to get rid of a shit teacher they have a lower rate of dismissal that virtually any other relative profession Hmm

The only things they bother to strike over is THER own pay and THERE own pensions.

And I think the fact that a boy was recently suspend for wanting more homework and teachers to actually up there game shows but those same teacher who reprimanded the boys will down tools quick smart for there own means

Fusedog · 23/03/2014 07:32

Misspixietrix utter tripe

Parents on private school do take there children out foe holidays so what the hell are you talking about

Misspixietrix · 23/03/2014 07:34

Fusedog actually that's what the strikes were for 2years ago. Pensions and SAFEGUARDING issues. The safeguarding issues were because they wanted to increase the class sizes which would have been fine if Teachers were given extra TAs they weren't. Unless you think it's perfectly safe for 1 Teacher and 1 TA to be looking after more than 30 children a day....

Misspixietrix · 23/03/2014 07:35

Bollocks is it utter tripe. If you valued your child's education so much that a strike pissed you off you wouldnt take them out would you? Not rocket science.

Misspixietrix · 23/03/2014 07:38

You're less likely to take them out if you pay for the education. I know I bloody was when I was paying 100,s a week! You've just proved my point. Why is it okay for people to take holidays in term time but it's not okay for Teachers to strike over certain issues?

youarewinning · 23/03/2014 07:40

My advice would be for you to research the ACTUAL REASON for the strike.

The teachers are on our side - they are striking against the daft and impractical proposals of Gove. Who incidentally is responsible for the term time holiday rule.

Nennypops · 23/03/2014 07:42

Fusedog, this strike is about so much more than pensions and pay: it is about issues which directly affect children's education.

But, looking at the pensions issue: suppose you were in a job for 30 years, working extremely hard in the belief that your pension was secure. And suddenly your employer moved the goalposts so that it isn't, but it's obviously too late for you to make any alternative arrangements. Your employer totally refuses to discuss this. Would you just suck that up for the greater good?

Misspixietrix · 23/03/2014 07:46

Of course you do nannypops after all you knew what you signed up for Grin .