To think that White Dee from Benefit St isn't doing people with depression any favours

[Bearbehind]

I've just seen White Dee from Benefits St being interviewed on Sky a News about the budget.

She said she can't work due to her having depression- yet she can appear on TV and is not ruling out standing as a politician

There are lots of people who genuinely suffer with depression. I doubt it's impossible to fake it to a GP though.

Winston Churchill. MP. Prime Minister. Depressed quite frequently. Between being an over entitled piss head. did a cracking job during that there war though

You have obviously never had depression, stop judging miss perfect.

Sillylass79, no, brain chemistry hasn't been "debunked as a theory" when it comes to depression. Scientists say there's more to depression than what was first thought to be a lack of serotonin, but that doesn't mean brain chemistry isn't at fault. It just means the process is more complicated than they first thought. The fact that SSRIs work for many sufferers of clinical depression, means that a chemical change can and does help many sufferers. SSRIs have no effect on someone whose serotonin uptake is already at the normal level, regardless of how sad they are.

If depression was a "normal" emotion then it would correlate far, far more strongly with negative life experiences, and would rarely be seen in people who had a good life. This just isn't the case, so how do you explain that?

people who say they have had a good or charmed life very often have not, that is what they want to present to the world and often for them really hard to understand themselves harder than someone who has obviously not had such a good life

what is a good life anyway

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant Freudian. Of course everyone's life has ups and downs. I meant that there might be genuinely no "life reason" for the person to be feeling despair, worthlessness, extreme sadness etc. Nothing to do with "presenting" anything to others.

If depression was just normal life sadness then you'd expect a very strong correlation between life experience and depression. This isn't the case - it can affect anyone regardless of background, previous experiences and current circumstances.

I met White Dee recently and I really really liked her even though I thought I wouldn't

Sillylass - I see what you are saying about brain chemistry, and I know I mentioned it in my (mammoth) post this morning, so apologies for mentioning an outdated theory.

I don't want that to detract from the main point I was trying to make, though - that depression isn't just a weak response to some bad things happening (prompted by the poster who said she had a lot of tragedy in her life, but hadn't given in and stopped working, because you just have to get on with things - or words to that effect).

I struggle to explain why bullying that happened over 30 years ago still affects me so badly, in such an all-pervading way - and the brain chemistry theory made sense to me, in that I thought, OK, I have a particular chemical imbalance, that makes me more prone to depression, secondary to my lack of self esteem, and in turn, makes it nigh impossible to defeat that lack of self esteem.

For me, it explained why some people are more prone to depression than others - an explanation that didn't make out that people with depression are just weaker than other people, so can't just cheer up and get over it.

What resonated most for me, in your post, was when you said, "The truth is the number of people whose depression is intractable enough to keep them out of work for long periods shouldn't be that high. It is not true for the vast majority that there is no long term recovery possible.

Services and effective treatments for significant depression are very poor for many which is a disgrace. For the overwhelming majority good therapy and the right medication should put a stop to depression."

That is so true.

I don't necessarily agree that people are buying into depression as a disability or a life-long, intractable illness. I think my depression severely limits my abilities when it is bad, and I suspect that I will always have a higher than normal predisposition to developing further bouts of depression - BUT with the right treatment and therapy, I ought to be able to stay out of the black pit and should recover the abilities that are lost at the moment (the ability to like myself, to look after myself - especially my weight, and the ability to do things around the house that need doing). And whilst I might always be at a higher risk of developing depression, the right treatment should enable me to stave it off when it arises.

So I suppose I do see it as lifelong, but it needn't be intractable. The sad thing is that the right therapies exist, but most people can't access them. I realise how lucky I am that dh has health insurance through work that covers me, and allows me to get 1-to-1 therapy now, when I need it. MH provision in my area is much better than in many others - I did get 2.5 years of group therapy for free - but I didn't start that for at least a year and a half after seeing my GP here for the first time (for a represcription of the ADs) after we moved up to Scotland. I was on the waiting list for a place in a therapy group for over a year.

yes I know it can

and really there is always something, it may seem nothing to others something that may be uncovered after years of therapy many many reasons but there is no such thing as the perfect life where someone has no reason to feel depressed

I have had very severe depression for years, I've had input from MH services for about 15 years which is on-going. It has affected my life significantly and I've not held down a job for 15 years and it's had enough impact on my parenting that social services have been involved. Personally I don't relate to descriptions of people who say they have very bad depression but still manage to hide it well enough to hold down demanding jobs, and meet all their parenting needs. That is not my experience of depression at all, I have found it utterly debilitating.

Obviously I can't know how other people experience things, but bad depression for me is so overwhelming that I'm simply not able to even leave my bed, let alone get dressed and go out to work or take dc to school. It does worry me that when people hear from more functioning depressives who are holding down jobs, social lives and being great parents, that they must think I'm exaggerating things or just not making enough effort. And I just can't help thinking that the severity of my depression must just be much worse than the average, because most people seem to keep up daily demands and yet I'm not able to, no matter how hard I try.

I think my depression must be seen as worse than other people's by the professionals - just from the fact that I get DLA (at higher rate), have a disabled travelcard, have been referred for things like NHS psychotherapy (very intensive treatment with four individual sessions a week) and regular meetings with a consultant psych when this is supposedly impossible to get except in very extreme cases. I know from watching Benefits Street that White Dee was on ESA but didn't seem to be getting DLA (which is harder to get as you need to show care needs) or getting as much input from MH services so it could be that her depression is much milder on the scale than my own.

The relapse rates for CBT aren't all that good, but it's offered because it's cheaper than other psychological treatments. In any case, talking therapies certainly don't work for everyone.

It's an oft-peddled myth that talking therapy necessarily addresses the "causes" of clinical depression. If the cause is chemical then no amount of talking helps.

If there's some life reason behind the problem then yes, when that's sorted out people may feel better. But in the many cases where there isn't, that's when talking therapy might as well just be a placebo, with no long-term benefit.

ebmh.bmj.com/content/8/3/75.full

And you're only talking about mild and moderate depression, which still leaves the question of worse cases.

In the absence of any life reason for some people to suffer from depression, you're left with chemistry. There's no reason to discount physical problems of the brain as the cause of depression in many sufferers, just because it's not fully understood yet. There's a huge amount of research going into the chemistry behind depression.

Some cynics will say such research is due to drug companies wanting to sell antidepressants, but you could equally say those offering (in many cases) useless talking therapies want to make money out of the vulnerable by offering things like CBT which have a high relapse rate for the long term.

It's not fatalism to accept the best treatment that's on offer at the time, and which helps the most. For many sufferers, this is antidepressants. I also don't believe there's a "common humanity" in pretending everyone else has depression, any more than everyone can claim to be migraine sufferers because "we all get headaches sometimes".

there is no such thing as the perfect life where someone has no reason to feel depressed

No, but even in the event that someone did have that mythical perfect life - they could still suffer from clinical depression.

A genetic link to depression has been found, and has been narrowed down to a particular chromosome.

www.nhs.uk/news/2011/05May/Pages/genetic-link-to-depression-found.aspx

"The study has found “clear evidence” that a region on chromosome 3 (called 3p25-26) is linked to severe recurrent depression."

"Based on what is known about the proteins that these genes encode, a number of these genes seemed like strong potential candidates for being involved in depression. For example, some of the genes in the region encoded the receptors for various brain signalling chemicals."

but what is this perfect life

I have seen a few clients that are absolutely convinced they have had a perfect life can not understand why they are depressed it can take time for them to understand it is not so perfect as life simply is not

I was recently admitted for the first time ever. Not the most pleasant experience I have ever had, but upon reflection, necessary.
I am exhausted trying to explain my condition to even my family never mind the world at large. Times are good, times are very bad. I never know which one is going to turn up when. I am also very ashamed of my depression, of how I behave, of the damage it has done to those around me. How I would love to be even normal. To enjoy a normal level of misery (Freud said this better than me) rather than the conditions I find myself mired in.
I am a white, middle aged, comfortably off woman. There have been massive traumas in my life which I chose whether or not to discuss. Sometimes it feels like open season on the fabric of my mind and life, because I have a diagnosis of depression. I am obliged to recount my miseries over and over to a changing host of mental health professionals. NOw I bring a little list, hand it over and wait for the real work to start. This has been going on all my life. It will continue. I see no end to it.

Despair is at the core of depression. Utter, life sapping despair. So far, I have not seen a treatment for despair

Without wanting to break into the thread (which I am finding very interesting reading - thanks all!) I just wanted to add my experience of having a stammer which occurred during my 3rd psychotic episode, went away and re-occurred during my 4th and will still resurface every now and then when I am stressed. It's like a physical tremor in my jaw and I cannot control it.

SillyLass - I agree with a lot of what you are saying about all of this 'it's a brain defect' theory and also I have found, through my CPN, that mindfulness helps me enormously.

Wow - that is an amazing post, sillylass - thank you for taking the time to type all that out. I have read it quickly, but I think I will have to read it more slowly and carefully to take it all in properly and process it - but it makes such a lot of sense to me so far.

This is my recent thread about the awful appointment I had with my GP, when I reached rock bottom, and needed help.

One of the big problems with depression is that it's an excruciatingly painful condition, but one for which no pain relief is offered/available. The pain is very real and yet sufferers may have to endure the pain for many years without respite. At least with physical pain, most (though not all) of the time the pain can be managed and the person may have a decent quality of life. It's also the case that depression appears to be very underfunded on the NHS, with anything other than antidepressants exceptionally difficult to obtain. Unfortunately a depressed person is often in no state to be able to fight for the treatment they need. Just making a GP appointment, washing for it/finding clean clothes and turning up are hard enough without having to push the GP to make a referral for CBT, therapy etc.

I can fully understand why white Dee cannot hold down a job. Like many depressed people she tries to make the best of it and appear cheerful when she is able. We have no idea how many interviews she has cancelled due to being too ill to attend. I don't know any 9-5 employer that would be ok for a depressed employee to go through phases where they call in sick at short notice a day or two a week. And yet the freedom to be able to do that would make work so much more manageable and less scarey.

Some days I am fine, others I cannot get out of bed. There is no knowing what type of day it will be. I do work, but that's not a reflection on the mildness of my depression. I may be able to work but that is all I can do. There is nothing left for any sort of a life outside work. I work and I sleep. I have no hobbies (apart from my gorgeous cats) and no family or friends. I work. I sleep. I work. I do not smile, I do not laugh. Happiness and love are abstract concepts. They don't exist in my life. I haven't had a relationship in 15 years and have had no face to face friends in 2 years. My social life only comprises online forums. Eventually once I have saved enough money I will get out of the career I hate and finish my degree doing something I love :) living the way I do may be the only way a depressed person can cope with working, but I don't think anyone should have to 'live' like me. It should be a choice, though it seems increasingly difficult to get DLA for depression.