to not understand capitalism

[IceBeing]

Some people work hard (say 60 hours a week all year) and get paid about £20000 a year...and some people work hard and get paid 10 or even 100 times as much a year.

How can 60 hours a week of work from 1 person be worth 100 times as much as 60 hours a week of work from another person?

But who are you to say that I'm not allowed to have a scented tampon if I want one? The beauty of a capitalist society is that there is something for everyone. If you don't want your minge smelling like fake flowers, then buy the unscented ones. I happen to like the effect of having a floral fanny, so I'm buying the scented ones.

In all seriousness, it's not capitalism that exploits the worst in human nature... It's the people with bad human nature. There are some great things to come out of a capitalist society, and I think you're being quite narrow-minded here.

merrymouse I think the whole investing thing is pretty much broken now...especially regarding pension funds. Many big pension funds have to basically buy any shares going because they have more to invest than there is available on the stock market....so they can't actually 'win' any more...they just track the average market movement....we would be better off putting our money in safes.

Cailin I don't know....but I do know I don't have much of it....

I also fail on the caring a million times more about my own child than the next door neighbours which has a far more directly traceable evolutionary link.

reginald I have as much right to tell you not to use a scented tampon as I have the right to tell you not to use cocaine.

both are bad for society as a whole and for individuals using them specifically.

So I guess we don't actually live in a purely capitalist society already...

whine nope don't get it....your DH does his job (making more jobs) well and so does your cleaner. If they put in the same hours then why does your DH get paid more?

What do you mean when you say you "fail on caring more about your own child than the NDN's child?"

If I want to start a business making unscented tampons and I have no money I can't do it unless somebody takes the money out of their safe and lends me the money.

There are many ways to skin a cat and I can find a crowd funding site, approach angel investors, go to a bank that also makes money on the stock exchange or give my mum a 50% share in the business in exchange for some cash - it is all essentially capitalism.

I think you are confusing consumerism and capitalism. They are often linked but they aren't the same thing.

callin demand and supply applies to all goods and services including the labour market.

re the example of scented tampons - yes the demand can be 'create' through marketing. The demand for a good or service is also dtermined by how many alternatives.

I think too many posts are gettign bogged down in equating capitalism to banking. Capitalism simply means the market is controlled by private owners and it allows for free market forces of competition, supply and demand to operate.

We used to have a mixed market economy until large chunks of it got privatised. In a planned economy is it is less competitive and therefore an insufficient allocation of recourses occurs.

Part of our economy are still controlled by the Government and they also intervenve when there is a market failure. A recent example is the 'help to buy' scheme this is to give the construction and housing market a boost.

resources amongst other sorry doing tea...

Looking at whineaholic's example, presumably if she had to pay her dressage instructor and her cleaner £40 an hour there is a high chance she would stop using her cleaner.

I think the OP is saying they can understand why someone with more skills is paid 5 or 6 times or even 10 times as much as someone with less skills, but not 100 times more.

I would say one reason is competition in a free market.

But I also think there is an element of social facilitation to it - humans are biologically designed to want something they see other humans with, and its not a great stretch to assume that if a very expensive good or service is priced highly and seen as a luxury item or possessing special and elusive qualities in some way, it becomes coveted.

Football is actually a very good example, because watching football matches is pure social facilitation, and the expensive wages of the players just latches onto that. In reality, its kicking a ball around, but add onto that all the supporters, team fervour and so on and very quickly a market is created for very specific skills which are somehow seen as special and above the ordinary rules of supply and demand.

Ice Erm... Comparing cows to carrots isn't okay, but comparing cocaine to scented tampons is?!

One is illegal, one is not. One is completely regulated by the government to ensure that it will not harm me, one is completely unregulated and is fueling murders, human trafficking, and violence all over the world.

I have used scented tampons my entire life and never once have I had any ill-effects from them. I have used cocaine a few times, and had some good and some negative effects from it.

I still can't really get my head around what you want then, if not a capitalist society? Maybe you think my lazy next door neighbour deserves half of what I earn, just to make things fair? Or you think brain surgeons should be paid the same as actors who are paid the same as bin men who are paid the same as the kid behind the counter at Mcdonalds? If they're all on the same wage, what motivation is there to work harder than anyone else? Why would I work for years to become a brain surgeon when I can earn the same whack for serving someone some chips?

Ice
You clearly know nothing at all about the stock market, either historically, or over the last year.
For starters, IPOs (new companies launching themselves onto the stock market) are at a near-record high. The reason for this is drumroll supply and demand! There is a lot of demand for new stocks, so companies are floating to raise new capital.

This is one of the reasons the stock market was up nearly 15% in 2013. How much would your money in a safe have been up in the same time frame?

Do you really not understand why a cleaner doesn't get paid the same as a CEO?

Do you understand why a headmaster gets paid more than a newly-qualified teacher? Or a consultant gets paid more than a bank nurse?

Less you are right about some goods and services - such pricey designer items are said to have exceptional demand ie they are desired even though cheaper alternatives are availabelt that would fulil the same function.

Some goods such as oil are said to have inelastic demand - the price can rise and they will still be sought after as there are few alternatives (well until recently re electric cars)

Yes - footballers are not classed as a 'normal' good.

Ice maybe you need to read about communisim a bit, it may answer why a lot of countries opt for a mixed or capitalist economy...

I think the issue is that Ice has a fundamentally different philosophical outlook on life. It isn't wrong, but it is one that means she can't comprehend why anyone could crave money and things as much as they do. My brother is very similar and when I was complaining about studying for my professional exams, he just couldn't get his head around why I would make myself miserable with work, just to get a higher salary later down the line. Especially when my current salary meant I could buy food and live in an adequate house.
He will never understand wanting a Very Nice house and More Things, just like I can't understand why he isn't more ruthless at work to earn more and live somewhere nicer.

It is a bit like when running-aholics talk about getting out of bed at 5am in the pouring rain to go on a training run, to someone that hates exercise

Less you are right about some goods and services - such pricey designer items are said to have exceptional demand ie they are desired even though cheaper alternatives are available that would fulfil the same function

But would they fulfil the same function, once the element of social facilitation/luxury/exclusivity is taken away? What happened in Soviet Russia? Government run companies tried to copy a few desirable Western goods which functioned reasonably well but were cheaper, but the Soviet consumer still craved Western "designer" goods.

I expect its so inherent in human nature that its been around since Homo Sapiens first sat around the campfire and compared furs (if that's what they did).

Binmen are actually a poor example of a low paid semi skilled worker, because in many local authorities, they are paid excessively well for their skills set, due to unionism/cartels/example of a male dominated industry looking out for itself. The average salary of a binman in Manchester is something like 45k pa once you take into account overtime and bonus payments, and in Edinburgh its not much less.

If you compare a binman to another type of manual worker, say a horse groom who is quite possibly more skilled and has less mechanised tools to help, its very overpaid.

icebeing that demand creates a drive for innovation which in turn makes a massive difference to lots of peoples lives in lots of ways not just in stuff that we buy but also in medicine, farming, travel, housing etc. etc. it affects every way of live - its progress not capitalism.

You right kim