To wonder what is best for a child, nursery or childminder??

[Hotmad]

I had in my mind that when I begrudgingly go back to work I would find a childminder for my DD who will be around 1 yr old.
A friend then told me that a nursery would be better as they would get more social integration there.

Yes Goldmandra has explained exactly my concerns with nurseries and attachments. Which is of course not to say that all nurseries are problematic and I am sure that some do implement the keyworker systems in the way that they were originally conceived, it must be difficult in practice. The ideal would be that the keyworker does 60-90% of the care for that one child but obviously the others are around if she/he is busy with another child but that this would be a minority of the time. And evidently different workers could run group activities etc rather than each child being coached by their exclusive one.

But that is exactly how a good nursery works.

I know rubbish nurseries exists (and everything inbetween) but there are some pretty awful childminders, who forget to change a child before the school run so they are in a shitty nappy for an hour and a half, or who haven't managed their time correctly so a child is in an activity and has to be pulled out to do the school run, which by my reckoning is roughly a third of the time you will be with a childminder.

That is a huge consideration for some people. Sometimes when I pick the children up I have to collect my husband or shopping for the night, for them to have been between places for that amount of time would be uncomfortable for me and for then.

When you factor in that few hours a day of walking from school to school, waiting and picking up other children, I reckon there is as much key working done with each child in even just an average nursery.

Of course! But I think that many parents misunderstand the keyworker system and the benefits when it is used correctly and I think it is good to be aware of this, as it helps to evaluate the settings that you have available.

Also I suspect that a truly good nursery is rarer than it should be. But this is also true for childminders. Even my childminder who I loved had some serious downsides, she has now decided to stop childminding, and I didn't tell her I thought it was for the best but I privately thought so. DS was happy there, it fulfilled a purpose. Who is to say that she did any worse than I would have done. At the end of the day she is a person who loved him (and still does - we moved and she's always asking after him on facebook :))

We do a nanny share and I'm really pleased with it. The other (two) children are also pre-schoolers but are old enough to interact with my DS whereas babies his age wouldn't (he's 14 months). It offers the flexibility and home environment of a childminder without many of the downsides. They socialise at play group once a week.

They don't do messy play etc but I can do those things with him as I work part time.

I do however plan to introduce nursery when he's 2.5 as by then I think he'd benefit from more structured stimulation.

Fify there are good and bad in every sort of setting and I've seen a lot of it first hand. I don't agree with your assertion that childminded children spend a third of their day on the school run and I really don't think it's helpful to start slagging off nurseries or childminders.

My original point was to show that children in decent nurseries can build successful attachments with staff I was just explaining something that prospective parents can look out for.

I think it depends hugely on the CM/nursery in question. And how many hours the child will be spending there. And the age of the child. And the child's personality. And the parent's personal preference. And...

There are way too many variables to take into account to make a glib statement that one is better than the other.

Going out in the fresh air on the school run doesn't harm children.
Much better than staying inside a germ ridden nursery for 8 or 9 hours a day.

Lots of nurseries try to replicate daily life by taking the children out for a walk in massive pushchairs that seat around 9 children.

I'm not convinced that the nurseries you have experienced have been particularly good ones if that is your opinion of them MaryPoppinsBag.

My DD's nursery has free flow outside/inside for a lot of the day. They also go for walks in the nearby fields, not in buggies. Outside they have toys, trees to climb and a mud kitchen.

I also wouldn't agree with the description of any of the nurseries I have seen as germ ridden. They have strict hygiene protocols, much like many CM probably have too.

I also wouldn't agree with the description of any of the nurseries I have seen as germ ridden.

Oh I don't know. I think anywhere inhabited by groups of small children will be pretty germ ridden. Not that it's a bad thing. They have to come across them all at some point and I'm sure the staff wash their hands before preparing food, etc.

Yes, they will catch more bugs at nursery but that just means they'll have had more when they start school.

I've had 2 children through pre-school and school nursery and temped in a nursery. They do tend to be a bit germy! As does school. Even though they had outdoor play/ free flow.

Yes both CM and nursery have strict hygiene protocols because they follow the same statutory framework.

My children go to a nursery that is completely outdoors, there is very little indoor activity.

I like the sound of that!

Mine went to nursery, from 18m and 19m respectively. DD1 part time until reception and DD2 part time for the first while then full time.

I was happy with them being at nurseries. They both went to completely different places and DD2 went to the school nursery for pre-school.

I didn't fancy using a childminder as I used to watch the practices of a neighbour across the street who had an excellent reputation. She would leave them all standing in her front garden that didn't have fences while she went back in, sometimes for up to 5 minutes. She seemed to have an awful lot of charges and did school runs for older kids. Her husband was a grumpy old bastard (not a crime, I know) and she'd walk up the street with toddlers, unrestrained, trailing behind her. She must have had road sense drilled into them because otherwise there could have been a tragic accident.

I only started noticing all the above once I was a mother myself. I'd ponder what CMs do with the kids when they need to go to the loo etc.

Saying all that I have had friends who have had fantastic CMs.

I want to improve my outdoor provision so we spend more time outside.

Bum potato they come to the toilet with me
Or I nip as we are on the way out. My downstairs toilet is just off my porch and I leave the door open and just hope the postman / neighbour/ delivery doesn't come whilst I'm Weeing.

We did childminder (still do - she looks after year 6 DD before school every day).

One of the big advantages of using a childminder in many communities is that they fit in with the community pre-school / mother & toddler group etc. So in our old village, the experience DS had with his childminder was pretty much exactly what he would have had with me - some time at home, some time at parent + toddlers and other things like toddler music classes, his daily sessions at pre-school, integrating with the group of children he would be through primary [or would have been - we moved, but that was the theory!].

Whereas the few children in the village who went to nurseries started school knowing many fewer children, as 90% of the reception class had been together at the neighbouring Pre-school from 2.5 years old.

With a CM, you are utterly dependent on the quality of 1 person - so if they are excellent, life is wonderful, but if they are not, it's dire. Whereas in nurseries it is more 'averaged' - some of the staff will be great, others less so - so the good is less brilliant but the bad is less awful IYSWIM.

I'd ponder what CMs do with the kids when they need to go to the loo etc.

You can wait until they are sleeping or in a pushchair ready to go out. If desperate measures are called for you can always strap them into a pushchair for two minutes or perhaps, if you have a safe enough environment leave them in the hallway outside the toilet for two minutes with a toy.

I have never felt that it was appropriate to take them with me and I can't think of any time that it's caused a problem. Mind you I can easily wait a whole day without going anyway.

teacherwithtwokids - I think you raise an interesting point about choosing the childcare option that is the norm in your own community and I entirely adhere to your position that some childcare options are going to provide a life for young DC that is very similar to the one they would have had with a SAHP.

In France there are whole villages where all parents WOH and all DC attend the same crèche from 2 or 3 months of age. The crèche is part of the community experience and a must have for a DC's social integration.

I have a brilliant childminder. She takes Dd to playgroups, park, butchers, post office, library, school run to collect her children. She plays with DD and the other child she has all day long. DD loves going there and has a secure attachment.

She also does reading, messy play and activities in house and garden. DD loves helping in the vegetable garden.

The crèche is part of the community experience and a must have for a DC's social integration.

I think the gold standard for that is the Reggio Emelia model in Italy. It's a wonderful, child and community centred model that some people have tried to recreate over here. I don't know of anyone who has been successful though.

My son is 2.7 year old and have been crying in nursery since a month, he goes 2 hrs 3 days a week. He is not social and feel scared in new environment and places with more people and children and cry a lot.
We are thinking for child minder option now.