To wonder what is best for a child, nursery or childminder??

[Hotmad]

I had in my mind that when I begrudgingly go back to work I would find a childminder for my DD who will be around 1 yr old.
A friend then told me that a nursery would be better as they would get more social integration there.

I don't understand this idea that babies don't get the chance to form one-to-one attachments in a nursery setting. My dd's nursery has a better ratio than most childminders locally, plus she's in a room with all children the same age, so everything they do is entirely age-appropriate and tailored. She has wonderful and happy relationships with the adults.

I also don't get the idea that babies don't need socialising. My 10.5mo gets positively grumpy whenever we have a home day. She always seems much happier to go out and see people.

Maybe some babies have a preference for a more home-like setting, but they're all individuals and what suits one won't necessarily suit another.

BertieBotts: My post didnt say there was only one way to experience social interaction, I was only challenging the statement that there was no benefit to be gained by social interaction.

The extra effort bit is key though.

I said WITHOUT extra effort. So it's not key at all. I don't think anyone has said there is no benefit to social interaction, just that the "socialisation" offered by nurseries is no more beneficial to an under-3 than any kind of socialisation they get anyway whether they are cared for by a parent, nanny or childminder. Under-3s don't interact with other under-3s, if they do it is in a very side by side manner. They get more social interaction by being around children over 3 and adults. It's not particularly a natural situation to put lots of similarly aged babies together, it wouldn't occur "in nature" because they would be with their siblings (natural spacing typically around 2-3 years apart) and parents.

Rally the one on one thing is not about babies getting the attention of adults at all times. It's about the baby forming an attachment with one key carer rather than being cared for by multiple people. I know nurseries have keyworkers but this has to be unlikely in practice, at a childminder yes the CM has other children to look after but even if they are delayed for a minute, they are going to be the one attending to the baby. With a nursery keyworker if each key worker has 2 or 3 babies and they are busy with one and yours gets upset, whoever is free will go and see to them. I would say in practice this leads to the baby being cared for by multiple people even if perhaps they get their immediate need for attention etc met quicker.

Whereas cms only choose this career after they have their own children. As it gets you out of having to go back to work after mat leave.

I'd love to hear what evidence you think you've got for that ridiculous statement.

Don't toddlers learn to share, to be gentle with younger toddlers etc by interaction with other children? Yes they can learn the theory from parents/nanny but that isn't the same as learning by practice.

Young children learn some of their social skills by interacting with other children at home, at their childminder, at nursery, at mother and toddler groups, in parks, with wider family, etc. They also learn an enormous amount from their interaction with adults. The higher quality that interaction is, the better their overall learning and development.

If I had to choose between high quality relationships with caring adults and time socialising with their peers for any child under about four years I would plump for the adult interaction any day. After that I think the balance becomes more even as they tend to learn more from each other.

BertieBotts: Not to sidetrack this thread but I was commenting on the post that said Every scientific study going says they don't really gain anything substantial from it until they're 3.
I read that to mean the poster was saying there was nothing to be gained from social interaction before aged 3. I didnt say nurseries offered better social interaction (I didnt mention CMs or nurseries in my post).

Mumsnets child development page states (for 2 yr olds):
Playing with other children
She will start to enjoy playing alongside or increasingly with other children. Sharing is still unusual because children this age are too possessive and sharing is just not a concept they can embrace. But they will socially interact, in groups of two usually.

I said effort was key because it takes effort for any carer (be it nursery, CM or SAHP) to look after a child properly. I wouldn't call parenting effortless :)

Without a doubt a nursery is best for us.

As a child of 18 months I was beaten and abused by my childminder for over two years of my life. It had had an enormous impact upon my life, my mental health and my relationship with my parents.

There is no way I would ever leave my son in the sole care of just one person. At a young age when they cannot tell you what is going on you need an extra pair of eyes there at all times.

I have used both and broadly agree - nursery better for younger children, CM for older children (school age). Many CMs spend a lot of time driving around picking up kids from school. Babies at my dc nursery are in small, quiet rooms and gardens with one to one care from a few people.

However, assuming not an abuse situation, I think it really depends on the child and depends on the quality of the Nursery of Childminder. Good Nursery obviously better than crap CM and vice versa.

I can't find the quote you mention Million. I think with respect you have misread it, because how could a child have no social interaction until 3 years old, unless we're talking something extreme like the case of Genie.

All of the discussion about socialisation on this thread has been in terms of the type of socialisation offered by nurseries, as the OP mentioned it was told to her as a benefit. I think it's clear that this is something different to normal everyday social interaction, it refers the idea that children need to interact with others their own age. Which IS relevant for older children, but is thought currently to be unnecessary for children under the age of 3 (whatever popular opinion might say). Whether they play with other children or not isn't really relevant, because most children aren't doing this before 3 and certainly not at a year old.

Sorry to hear about your experiences Horse Dentist :(

I think it's important to remember that nurseries and childminders follow the same curriculum. They both adhere to strict guides in eyfs and both have to observe children and plan for their development through play and resources available.
Good childminders will be qualified to level 3 and understand the importance of being involved in the local community which gives the children they care for the chance to socialise etc.
personally I have worked in early years for over 20 years. I have been a nanny and nursery nurse and nursery manager and I am now a childminder. I have a degree in early years and am graded outstanding by ofsted. I KNOW I offer far more than some local play schools and nurseries. I have mentored many of the local settings to help them meet the eyfs standards!
The children I care for have lots of chances to socialise whilst in my care, we attend local toddler groups and soft plays and parks where they meet other children and I work closely with other minders so they get close interactions with atleast 6 other children per day.
We get to do things that children in nurseries don't get the chance to do like visiting shops and libraries and garden centres and we spend a lot of time outdoors visiting parks and woods.
No one can tell you what care to choose for your child. I believe this decision is made purely on instinct. The best thing to do is visit lots of types of care and decide for your child. It is not a one size fits all!

My ds nursery is a great mixture of both settings. The groups are small, only 5 children in each group ( aged between 1 and 4) he has the same carer everyday, she is a mum to teenage kids, it is important to me that the person looking after him is a mum.

In the morning the kids are inside, its a really cosy environment with all wooden/natural material toys ( this is important as ds gets hyper very easily especially when surrounded by bright flashing toys) in the afternoon they play outside even if it's snowing whichit often is

I didn't want him to go to a chilminder because I didn't want him being taken around doing school runs and shopping and going to do activities that he wouldn't necessarily enjoy. I like it that the entire day is focused on activities he will enjoy.

The food is all organic and home made and the Kids eat the 5 of them and their carer.

Blimey I don't think I'd like a nursery which supports cannibalism

Ha! What a terrible typo!

TheHorseDentist, I am so sorry to hear that - you poor thing

I can't agree that children do not connect with their key workers, my sons have connected with all the key workers they have had and have been loved dearly by them.

My DS has also connected with his key workers. His first one he went to her for cuddles aged one, and the next two he talks about when he comes home, ages two. He always talk about the people and kids at the nursery, it's lovely.

My DD connected really well with her key worker in the baby room. She is less fussed about her key worker now (age 3), partly because her current nursery only has as many staff in total as the room she was in at her last nursery, so she knows them all.

My 3 year old definitely connects with his key worker.

My ds is with a childminder. I work freelance so cost was a big factor and term time only was a big factor too . So if those things need to be taken into consideration you might be better off with a childminder.

I like the thought of my ds being in a home environment with children around his age in a smaller group.
I liked the fact it's more personalised and flexible to suit individuals.

I like opportunity for hugs and kisses and for then to get to know my child rather than him just being one of several others.

Home cooked food also appealed to me.

He gets loads of social interaction with me, but then I work part time so can take him to groups myself so wasn't worried about that. He goes to two groups a week with childminder which he wouldn't in nursery.

However talking to friends who's dcs go to nursery I do feel he misses out on 'learning' and experiences they have. My childminder doesn't seem to do painting or cooking or counting activities though. This sometimes makes me think a nursery might be better but then he would loose the other things I really like .

cleoowen, have you told your CM that you would like them to do more of those activities? To me, one of the positives of using CMs is that they aren't catering for huge groups and so should be more able to adapt to what both the child and the parent wants.

Horse Dentist - thankfully, I didn't experience anything as terrible as you, but I had a rotten time of it with a childminder as a child. It does make you edgy and I sympathise. I have to admit I don't understand the "home from home" comments as in my experience, childminder's homes are anything but a "home" with the children confined to more or less one room.

I definitely prefer nurseries but concede a huge part of this is my own experiences.

I can't agree that children do not connect with their key workers

Of course children can connect with their key people. That is the whole point of the key person system. It is a requirement that they are appointed so that children can have the deep relationships that support their development.

The problems occur in settings where the key person is just the one who is responsible for the paperwork and communicating with the parents of that particular child. They don't spend extra time with their key children and the special times like comforting, settling to sleep, feeding and nappy changes are done by whoever happens to be around. This happens in a lot of settings and it matters so parents need to look carefully into how key relationships are managed in any setting they are considering for their baby.

Well I think it is as 'easy' (for want of a better word) for a CM to be a paper pusher as it is for a nursery worker.

I think the biggest issue is labeling one as 'good' and one as 'bad' when each setting will be different.

Well I think it is as 'easy' (for want of a better word) for a CM to be a paper pusher as it is for a nursery worker.

My comment isn't about anyone being a paper pusher. It's about settings ensuring that babies have one or two consistent people caring for them with whom they build up deep attachments. This has to be planned for, especially in larger group settings where it would be easier and more efficient to do feeding, nappy changing, etc on a rota or conveyor belt system. It's important that parents ask pertinent questions to find out how the key child system is managed in potential settings.

Obviously it isn't going to be an issue for a lone childminder as they would, by definition, be the only one caring for the child.

I wondered why one of my parents was so very anxious about leaving her child with me. As I got to know her better, she confided that she'd had a terrible time at her childminder's house as a child.

She's now become a friend and one of my longest standing clients. Childminding has changed so much since those days.

With regard to those saying Nursery Nurses/ nannies go into it before having children so must be better - I disagree. I think being a parent can give you insight into children/ babies that just being taught it at level 3/ degree level doesn't! I've seen a couple of teachers mellow after having their own children. And when I temped in a nursery I could chat with parents about baby stuff that the childless nursery workers couldn't.

I didn't go into childminding so I didn't have to go back to work after mat leave. Childminding is blinking work you know. Looking after 3 under 3 is not for the faint hearted! Or the lazy or for someone who doesn't know what they are doing.

I observe my children and plan for them to meet their next steps in the same way a nursery does. I read stories, do song time, have a numeracy and a mark making area. I have role play set up (indoor and out). I set up small world activities. We play outside we go on trips. I do daily diary's. We bake, we paint, we do messy play. We celebrate cultural festivals.

Despite already having a degree in something else I decided after having my own children that I want to work in childcare. I have chosen childminding because it pays more than working in a nursery on minimum wage. Plus I get to be my own boss and I'm in charge of my own setting.

I only know one CM in my town that is graded satisfactory everyone else including me is Good or outstanding.