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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think pre 1989 tenancy rights should be restored?

402 replies

fideline · 13/03/2014 11:06

And that Assured Shorthold Tenancies should be abolished (or severely restricted?

Pre 1989 nearly all rents were subject to 'fair rent' adjudication and private tenants had much better security of tenure.

Reintroducing similar measures would vastly improve quality of life for millions of people in the UK (including children) and help to reduce the Housing Benefit bill.

Special exemptions and phasing arrangements could be made for accidental LLs and amateur LLs with small portfolios.

Reasonable?

OP posts:
evertonmint · 13/03/2014 18:56

On the mega profits point that fideline raises, I do agree - anyone not making profits in a BTL should get out:

If you have an interest only mortgage as a LL, chances are you are making some kind of income each month however small after your costs. That is a profit even if it is tiny.

If you have a repayment mortgage you might not be making a profit on a month to month basis. Indeed you may be subbing the mortgage so it is costing you in the short term. But you own a property and your subbing each month is effectively an investment you make on the assumption that you make a profit in the long term - either by owning a capital asset outright which you can then sell, or keep renting out to give yourself an income, or by having this plus growth in the market giving you tend or hundreds of thousands of pure profit as well. You're taking a risk, yes, but with a potentially huge reward.

Anyone who is not making or expecting to make a profit in one of those two ways needs to get out of the BTL game.

I speak as a soon to be landlord who is reading this with interest as I fully intend to be a responsible LL who doesn't shaft my tenants. We will be subbing the costs each month as we have a repayment mortgage because we are viewing it as a long term capital investment for retirement rather than an income now. So hopefully our long term interests can align with the right tenant's interests too. But I know many people will see me as an evil landlord because I will (ultimately if not immediately) make a profit out if another person's need for a home. I would only ever expect sympathy as a landlord if I had a nightmare tenant from hell who wrecked my flat and cost me loads in eviction fees. But even then I suspect the long term financial gain would outweigh those short term issues so I probably wouldn't deserve very much sympathy.

Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:00

No i didn't.

Amateur LLing is the usual description for people doing what you're doing.

OP posts:
Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:01

"Fideline so what do you suggest? Compulsory purchase of my 2 flats at a price you think fair?

And what would that be ? 50% of OMV value."

Nobody said anything of the sort.

OP posts:
TheGreatHunt · 13/03/2014 19:02

And as for it's not very nice for a tenant to have to move out, well no one's life is perfect. My flats are my pension fund . I bought them with earned income. So you seriously think my tenants have to be protected for ever more even if that might cause hardship to me

What you do directly impacts upon the lives of others. Tenants are not a hypothetical. You make money from other people, a pretty fundamental part of their life. It isn't to be taken lightly.

Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:10

It's a very telling paragraph isn't it Greathunt?

OP posts:
TheGreatHunt · 13/03/2014 19:11

Yep!

The selfishness of capitalism. It's great for making money but forgets that actions impact on others.

Caitlin17 · 13/03/2014 19:30

And of course my tenants get nothing for their rent.

So what other parts of capitalism do you object to?

Pensions? Any one owning a second home any one owning more land than you think is fair? Owning a house at all?
And Fideline I'm still waiting to hear what should happen to the houses I as an unprofessional landlord should own?
If you had one inkling of the rules and regulations which apply to the private sector in Scotland or indeed how the market works in a city like Edinburgh you might realise just how inaccurate and unrealistic most of what you have said is.

Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:32

Nobody called you unprofessional

OP posts:
Caitlin17 · 13/03/2014 19:35

By the way all of you bleating on about the evils of capitalism I'm assuming of course you never, ever buy cheap jeans or trainers or an iPhone because knowing the conditions of the workers who make them you couldn't possibly live with yourselves.

Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:36
Biscuit
OP posts:
TheGreatHunt · 13/03/2014 19:36

They don't get security. Being a landlord brings with it responsibility.

I'm not anti capitalism. I'm just Hmm at those who lack humanity.

TheGreatHunt · 13/03/2014 19:37

I don't have an iPhone.

I don't buy cheap clothes.

Caitlin17 · 13/03/2014 19:39

You did. I am not an amateur nor am I unprofessional in any sense of the word.

I'm also pretty sure I know far more about Housing Law and policy, landlords' responsibilities and obligations, the way the market worked pre and post 1989 than many of the posters on here.

Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:43

Tell me which post I said it in.

OP posts:
Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:44

So much bluster and inaccuracy and missing the point, Caitlin

OP posts:
Caitlin17 · 13/03/2014 19:46

Read back your own posts you have said it several times . It is very offensive. I've never actually ended any of my tenancies. Most stay 2/3 years as it suits them for a period in their lives.

WhosLookingAfterCourtney · 13/03/2014 19:48

It makes me livid what btl has done to housing. Such greed - I want that house, but I don't want to live in it, and I'd like someone else to pay the mortgage too.

I truly believe the world would be a better place if no-one owned more houses than they could live in.

Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:49

What is offensive Caitlin is for you to keep asserting that I have called you 'unprofessional' when I have done none such thing.

If you do not understand the terms 'professional landlord' and 'amateur landlord' then I suggest you look them up.

OP posts:
Caitlin17 · 13/03/2014 19:51

What ruined the housing market was RTB in the 80s.

Caitlin17 · 13/03/2014 19:54

Fideline You have been very rude to me.

You still have not replied to what you think should happen to my houses.

Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:54

This;

"I have 2 flats let on the Scottish equivalent tenancy. I need to be sure if my circumstances change I can get either or both back for me or my son to live in or sell them with vacant possession. "

Suggests an amateur LL,

So does this;

"And as for it's not very nice for a tenant to have to move out, well no one's life is perfect. My flats are my pension fund . I bought them with earned income. So you seriously think my tenants have to be protected for ever more even if that might cause hardship to me?"

They are not things a professional LL would say.

OP posts:
Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:55

Caitlin I have not been remotely rude to you.

OP posts:
wowfudge · 13/03/2014 19:56

Hi fideline - to answer your much earlier question, you could call it that I guess, but anyone who is letting a property may find that circumstances change and unlocking the resources in the asset may be necessary. More likely to be able to sell to an owner occupier than an investor.

Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:58

Not quite sure what my earlier question was wow

Was it about not regarding BTL properties as a liquid asset?

OP posts:
Original poster
fideline · 13/03/2014 19:59

Surely it would be better for all concerned if BTLing was treated exactly like any other business?

OP posts: