To think pre 1989 tenancy rights should be restored?

[fideline]

And that Assured Shorthold Tenancies should be abolished (or severely restricted?

Pre 1989 nearly all rents were subject to 'fair rent' adjudication and private tenants had much better security of tenure.

Reintroducing similar measures would vastly improve quality of life for millions of people in the UK (including children) and help to reduce the Housing Benefit bill.

Special exemptions and phasing arrangements could be made for accidental LLs and amateur LLs with small portfolios.

Reasonable?

Yanbu. As a private tenant I am now having to leave the house we've been in for 7 years. My choice is a similar house which will cost 700 a month even though it's smaller than our current home OR a two bed Housing Association flat with no garden.

At the moment I am leaning towards the flat. I am sick of paying someone else's mortgage and being beholden to someone who doesn't have to reward my good tenancy in ANY way by offering me some security.

I think there needs to be some BIG changes and fast. This country....I love it so much but I may have to take the children to Oz for a better start.

In principle I think it's not a bad idea and I say this as a (I hope good) landlord. It strikes me that the shittier a LL keeps a property the more trouble he will have with only attracting crappy tenants who have no desire to look after a property that the LL doesn't care about and is running it on the bare minimum upkeep.

On the other hand, my DF (again a responsible LL with very nice properties) had a nightmare with a few sitting tenants during the 80s who trashed his property. I can actually remember him coming home ashen faced and almost teary after seeing what they had done to one property he had gutted and rebuilt lovingly. I think it took him a lot of money and heartache to get over that one.

But that house in Slough is becoming increasingly common and I often wonder how slum landlords sleep at night. They give decent landlords a bad name. They don't give a shit about fire regs, damp, wiring, gas inspections etc: basic safety. It's all about the money and sadly there are a lot of desperate people out there who end up renting from these arseholes.

Oz? Are you kidding? As I understand it their property market is even more fucked up than ours.

YABU The reason that those safeguards were abolished was because there was a severe shortage of rental properties available. The father of a friend of mine committed suicide back in the early 70's because he could not get rid of tenants in order to sell the house when he needed the funds and instead was heading into bankruptcy. He thought his young family would be better off with the life insurance. Most private LLs would leave the market if they could not make money from their investment to avoid that kind of situation.

Balista More than 5 million households claim HB

About 7.5 million households rent their homes..

So we can conclude that 2/3 of tenants claim HB

Yes I agree with you. And rents didn't used to cover mortgage payments, they were less than that. So you didn't get small scale landlords trying to buy a house by renting it out.

Marple the safeguards were abolished to promote thatcherite property speculation. RTB was one of the main culprits in removing homes from the rental sector - another thatcherite policy.

BTL properties are not liquid assets. I would never invest in them and that is one of the reasons why not. If a LL is likely to need to sell in a hurry, than (s)he cannot really afford to be in the LLing business.

I realise that accidental LLs such as Balista have not chosen to be in such a position, but that is a separate problem that also needs addressing.

There were 8.3 million homes rented in 2011:

www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/detailed-characteristics-on-housing-for-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales/short-story-on-detailed-characteristics.html

Will be higher by now.

Half private rented, half social (HA/council).

There are 4.99 million HB claimants, of which 3.33 million are HA/Council, and 1.66 million private. (As of November 2013)

So roughly, 81% of social tenants claim HB, 40% of private tenants claim HB.

(The figure should be slightly less than 40% because the number of private rentals has presumably grown since 2011, whereas the social rentals probably haven't.)

Aga yes it's not perfect but we have a property out there to move into...it belongs to my PILS. We lived there some years back. At least we'd be in a house which is one day destined to be ours anyway. PILS have made solid plans for their care and retirement....wish we had the options they had.

Oh ok. I suspect your figures are more up-to-date Aga

And more detailed

To be clear, the problems was introduced at the end of the Major government in 1997, but it was the Blair government that saw the private rental sector spiral out of control, with Blair at the head of the queue, owning several BTLs.

Both parties are as bad as each other.

Yes Aga but 1989 was the starting point. All g'ovts since 89 have bowed to BTL investors interests

fideline is absolutely correct - BTL is definitely not a liquid asset and the property business (unless you're in the business of flipping rather than renting) should only ever be approached for the long haul. It's very sad what happened to that gentleman in the 70s but that is not a reason to not give renters better rights.

Aga and Fideline you both seem very clued up...what is your advice re my situation?

Take a tenancy in a nice-ish house in the same area we're in...with a landlord who has had some happy tenants for the last 4 years and who swears he's not selling soon as it's his retirement fund...OR a HA property in a very, very nice area which is not where we're from and has no garden...but has an excellent high school...top 10% in the county.

I think the HA has right to buy too...not that I think I want to....but the low rent could help me save a deposit on an actual house.

I would always take HA over private rental sector myself Bumpy not just for the fair rent but the security. More like 'home' than a private rental (decorate as you like, hang pictures as you like, no worry about the LL selling up).

I was an HA tenant for a while after my divorce and found the HA very good. A different HA is the freeholder of my current shared ownership house. Again very good, although I'm sure they do vary.

Didn't you also say rural area (previously). That would sway me a bit too

Just my personal opinion, of course.

Go with the HA place, maybe you could swap for a HA house in the future. Much stronger position than being just another unsecured private tenant subject to landlord's whim

You can always leave in the future if you don't like the neighbours, or want to buy or whatever.

Top 10% high school catchment's not to be sniffed at either.

Thank you. That's what DH and my Mum say too. I think the thought of it being "ours" and of course the rural thing is a big decider...as well as the cheaper rent!

I've found an allotment too...we will be ok in a flat I think. The DC are nearly old enough to take themselves to the park!

So it is definite then Grindy?

Actually Bumpygrindy is a good example. Humans have a need to settle down and 'nest' not roam around from one rental to the next, never feeling truly at home.

And paying through the nose all the while.

I expect there is a health and psychological cost.

We are well fucked off with our rental tbh.

We've been here almost seven years, nothing has changed in that time, we pay £1500 per month. To buy the house would cost over £600,000.

We will never have any security to make it our own, but we can't really move because we are getting a good deal. So we are stuck and pissed off with it all.

Wird world where £1500 a month is a good deal to be hung on to.

But I don't know anyone under 45 who isn't pissed off with their housing to be honest Aga

I was very lucky to get enough space to accommodate working from home, on a shared ownership basis. So we have security. The huge drawback is that we can't easily move. Stuck here now paying big mortgage and rent plus frantically saving to finance a downsize is 10 years.

And all because house prices MUST be artificially buoyed up. It's like sci-fi.

Weird world, i meant

Yes it is weird, £1500pcm is £30,000 per year, before tax. An entire year's labour, even at an above average wage.

And we don't live in a palace, just a 1300 sq ft 4-bed house in need of updating.

Basically our planning/land ownership system is designed so that the majority of people's output/labour accrues to the owners of land. And the banks. If wages rise, the rentiers will suck up the 'surplus' cash.

It's a rotten system that relies on limiting the supply of housing by basically preventing people building their own home, and preserving us in a sort of 1950s timewarp.

Fide I've got to go and see it but every day I lean more in the direction. I have to meet the HA next week to take along some paperwork but they indicated that the info the council housing list had from me is enough....there shouldn't be an issue.