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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think pre 1989 tenancy rights should be restored?

402 replies

fideline · 13/03/2014 11:06

And that Assured Shorthold Tenancies should be abolished (or severely restricted?

Pre 1989 nearly all rents were subject to 'fair rent' adjudication and private tenants had much better security of tenure.

Reintroducing similar measures would vastly improve quality of life for millions of people in the UK (including children) and help to reduce the Housing Benefit bill.

Special exemptions and phasing arrangements could be made for accidental LLs and amateur LLs with small portfolios.

Reasonable?

OP posts:
LessMissAbs · 14/03/2014 17:22

No, Caitlin17 its on their departmental Advice to Landlords (or similar). If you don't use their model tenancy and instead use one of your own, you have to send it to them for approval! And I am pretty sure they don't have any lawyers working in that department, so that means your lease is being looked over by a non-legally qualified person.

wowfudge · 14/03/2014 17:24

LessMiss - if you see my earlier post, I made reference to the Soviet communist bloc. I was being a little tongue in cheek with my post to angry as it looks as though she hasn't read the whole thread.

LessMissAbs · 14/03/2014 17:25

Thank goodness for that wowfudge!

Caitlin17 · 14/03/2014 17:26

The obligation to control anti social behaviour isn't just on HMO property. It applies to all private landlords in Scotland.

I have never had problems with tenants but in theory I could be fined and/or have a rent suspension order made which has the bizarre effect of allowing an anti social tenant to stay rent free.

wowfudge · 14/03/2014 17:27

LessMiss - some of the other posters are in cloud cuckoo land when it comes to the realities of living in a democratic, capitalist society.

LessMissAbs · 14/03/2014 17:32

That is true Caitlin17 and I do think that is also a breach of the fundamental common law right in Scots law to the fruits of the property.

Alongside said interference with personal property rights/human rights to property/private life, there are a few parts of this (which after all is all in secondary legislation and not debated by Parliament) which are untested and quite possibly would not stand up in court if they were.

I do think though that the issue re landlord respsonsibility for anti-social tenants creates and eventual duty on landlords to evict, which Assured Tenancies would make very difficult.

Just who are all these people who want to rent one property for life, and how do they know they will never have to move for work?

angryangryyoungwoman · 14/03/2014 17:41

Hi wowfudge, I was referring to your post that started with saying that it was capitalism in action. My post to you was referring to that and the market failures that the current system produces. I did read your earlier post, but was asking missabbs for her solutions because I prefer to have a
discussion based on solutions and suggestions rather than tongue in cheek comments or sarcasm.

angryangryyoungwoman · 14/03/2014 17:48

Missabbs, I am not professing to be an expert either that's
Why I find threads like this so interesting. Is it possible to end homelessness? Can we create a perfect society? Probably not, don't want to be accused of living in "cloud cuckoo land"???! But I do believe the current system is unfair to more people than the number who benefit.

wowfudge · 14/03/2014 18:20

Angry - sorry if I have offended you. What the OP suggested won't fix things and nor would HAs taking over housing stock.

The benefits system is being overhauled with the aim of getting those who are able to help themselves off benefits and it will impact on HB. This is contentious for many reasons.

A lot of homelessness is linked to mental health issues and majority of homeless people are men on their own rather than families.

Councils spent huge sums of money building social housing on the 60s and 70s which then proved to be unsuitable and was replaced at great cost in subsequent decades. Perhaps they could be given powers to buy unoccupied housing stock to renovate, or demolish and replace and increase social housing stock. This might be more expensive than paying HB though.

Perhaps we just need to accept than many more people will be long term renters. Renting is the norm in many countries.

I don't believe that giving tenants greater security of tenure is the solution though.

wowfudge · 14/03/2014 18:22

That was a bit higgeldy piggeldy but you get my drift

Caitlin17 · 14/03/2014 18:37

LessMiss I can't find anything which obliges anyone to use the Council's model style or have your own style approved by them. There's nothing in the legislation which gives them this power.

Their site does say a landlord has to have buildings insurance, which is not true. It might be sensible to but there is no obligation to insure your house.

noddyholder · 15/03/2014 13:29

I don't want to be an amateur landlord. I buy old houses and renovate them. I buy with my own money and do the renovation with my own money and hope to sell for a profit. But its a risk. No house I have ever bought has been habitable before I have done the modernisation so not suitable for letting. And I am not a landlord I am a designer.

Original poster
fideline · 15/03/2014 14:34

So you're making the point that what you do is different Noddy?

OP posts:
noddyholder · 15/03/2014 14:46

No I'm not making any point Mainly I think house prices are too high and need to fall so that people have CHOICE.People pay me to do to what they can't/won't. Whether prices rise or fall doesn't really affect me.

noddyholder · 15/03/2014 14:48

I have never let anything so have no idea although I know a lot of BTL landlords and its a complete different thing as they put in any old cheap kitchen/boiler/bathroom etc an just want a high return. I use the best of everything and leave nothing undone and hope when I sell it covers all I have spent plus my fee.

Original poster
fideline · 15/03/2014 14:56

Well your doing something positive by bringing uninhabitable stock back into use.

The problem is a lot of people in their 30s I know are semi-resigned to raising their families in rented homes a)because their is no sign of house prices coming down and b) because they can't afford to continue saving a deposit whilst paying rent. We know some people in intermediate rent or 'rent to buy' schemes, but they are thin on the ground. One couple I know completely changed their life by leaving London for a rented cottage on a country estate (might have been NT) and new careers so that they could start TTCing with some home of medium-term housing stability.

I think a lot of under 40s are in the same dilemma. The whole subject of housing dominates conversation.

OP posts:
Original poster
fideline · 15/03/2014 14:57

some hope of medium-term....

OP posts:
noddyholder · 15/03/2014 15:00

I think it is such a shame that people are just unable to choose where to live and to have enough money left over to have a decent life too. BTL has contributed to this and low IRs. Before the mad housing boom of the last 10 years I still had a career but all the BTL landlords I know are 'new'. Also if rates rise or prices fall they jump ship and try and offload. I know a lot of people who will never buy and are living in cramped flats paying someone elses mortgage and pension when they could pay their own

Original poster
fideline · 15/03/2014 15:04

Yes. It all feels very tenuous and febrile.

OP posts:
noddyholder · 15/03/2014 15:05

I would also point out that the house I sold 3 beds was a 3 bed price.(350k) The current owner lets it as a 6 bed with beds in every room. A 6 bed house in that road would be 550 plus but I couldn't have sold for that and claimed it was a 6 bed by putting beds in the living room dining room and loft!

Original poster
fideline · 15/03/2014 15:17

Gosh, there seems to be an awful lot of that going on. Ramps up the rental yield, I can see that, but people must be desperate to want to live like sardines with no communal reception.

Was it two bathrooms?

I don't remember ever seeing an HMO let like that when I was teen/early 20s looking to rent a room. Seems to be a new thing like the West London sheds-with-beds phenomenon .

OP posts:
noddyholder · 15/03/2014 15:29

Yes students and sharers it was let for 2700! If I had let it as a family house to a couple with 2 kids it would have let for 1250. It had one bathroom and an extra toilet.

Original poster
fideline · 15/03/2014 15:57

More than double the rent is quite an incentive.

But not even two full bathrooms !

The mortgage paying neighbours must be chuffed

OP posts:
HaveToWearHeels · 15/03/2014 17:48

I would like to point out that not all LL's "put in any old cheap kitchen/boiler/bathroom etc an just want a high return" DH and I have several BTL's and they are maintained to the highest standard. We have houses in 3 areas, 1 being the south west, where a tenant never stays longer than 2 years and the north east and north west where we have had families in for up to 9 years (with no sign of moving). They are all maintained the same, only difference is the families in the north don't want us to decorate every two years, they are happy to do it themselves. We offer, to get someone in but they always refuse and say they are happy to do it themselves.
We are just about to complete on another, it is a 10 year old property and we will decorate from top to bottom, re carpet and floor, all new blinds and appliances because we wouldn't let anything we were not happy to live in ourselves.
If the market drops we will not be off loading our properties and making people homeless, that is not something a "professional" landlord would do.
I agree there are some unscrupulous LL's out there that let hovels and do not maintain them properly hoping to make a fast buck. People like that are scum and give us all a bad name, We have some tenants that were in a place like that with 2 children. They now pay the same money for a modern well maintained property are are a very happy family.

wowfudge · 15/03/2014 19:04

Noddy - just as HaveToWear has stated, you can't assume all LLs do the bare minimum because they don't. Just as when you make improvements to your own home, you have to decide whether to go all out (often determined by how long you plan to stay) or whether to do to a level where you increase the value and make a decent return when you sell, you don't put yourself in the position as a LL where you need an extra £50 per month because you've put a handmade solid wood kitchen with granite worktops into a two up two down terraced house in an area where the average monthly rent is £300 for similar places.

When I bought my first place, interest rates were quite a lot higher than they are now. The difference, as well as lower house prices, was that only 5% deposit was needed and to encourage FTBs mortgage lenders were offering all sorts of deals where they paid your legal fees. Made the whole process more affordable.