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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think pre 1989 tenancy rights should be restored?

402 replies

fideline · 13/03/2014 11:06

And that Assured Shorthold Tenancies should be abolished (or severely restricted?

Pre 1989 nearly all rents were subject to 'fair rent' adjudication and private tenants had much better security of tenure.

Reintroducing similar measures would vastly improve quality of life for millions of people in the UK (including children) and help to reduce the Housing Benefit bill.

Special exemptions and phasing arrangements could be made for accidental LLs and amateur LLs with small portfolios.

Reasonable?

OP posts:
Original poster
fideline · 14/03/2014 16:33

He doesn't have tenants Caitlin just holidaymakers. But he doesn't want them either. A lot of accidental LLs don't want either, they just want to sell.

OP posts:
LessMissAbs · 14/03/2014 16:34

DH is only offering holiday lets and has kept the cottage quietly on the market Caitlin. He has no interest in being a LL. It's been quite a stress

The sheer hypocrisy is astonishing. You are keeping an entire property empty except for a few holiday lets because you and your DH find it too stressful to let it out?!

Heres an idea. Start putting your money where your mouth is, lower the price and get it sold to someone who actually wants to either live in themselves or organise it so that people can rent it.

What a waste of property.

Original poster
fideline · 14/03/2014 16:36

noddy various people on here are claiming not to understand the term *amateur landlord'

Please ignore. I know what you mean.

OP posts:
Original poster
fideline · 14/03/2014 16:41

Abs Lot's of people (DH is just one) don't want to be half-arsed LLs, believe it or not, they just want to get married, relocate, emigrate, or whatever it is and sell.

Understandably people have to find ways to pay the mortgage, but that's not to say accidentally sliding into LLing is a desirable thing.

DH was lucky; most property isn't in tourist areas.

(And don't worry it hasn't been empty much)

OP posts:
LessMissAbs · 14/03/2014 16:44

Ah, the clarion call of the champagne socialists...

Original poster
fideline · 14/03/2014 16:46

Carry on Abs you just sound consistently silly.

OP posts:
angryangryyoungwoman · 14/03/2014 16:49

I agree with the op. I think it is immoral that some people live in bed and breakfast accommodation or in badly maintained homes,others cannot afford to buy a home and yet others are able to buy multiple properties and make a living from the profits. I think the number of properties people own should be limited to 2. That enables people to make some money if they so choose but doesn't restrict other people's rights to live in a home. At the moment, the cost to the taxpayer which goes to landlords is again, for me, immoral.

LessMissAbs · 14/03/2014 16:49

You know OP, instead of sitting on here, if you actually got off your backside and did some work in swotting up about how to become a good landlord and getting that property ready, it could be housing a needy family?

Too much like hard work I should imagine.

I cannot believe that you have told two posters on here who are solicitors that they are not professionals in the field of property rental.

LessMissAbs · 14/03/2014 16:52

I actually think restricting people to two mortgages is quite a good idea angryyoungwoman.

Although it wouldn't affect those who can buy for cash or who inherit properties or multiples thereof, and would not stop people setting up badly run incompetently staffed property management companies and getting lots of commercial mortgages.

Original poster
fideline · 14/03/2014 16:54

Thanks Angry

As you can see, the proposal makes some LLs rather cwoss, so who knows if reform is possible?

OP posts:
vickibee · 14/03/2014 16:54

I work for a large LL in xs of 600 properties and some are on fair rents, as little as £250 Pm for a 3 bed in a sought after location. However their contract states that they are responsible for all but structural repairs . A lot of tenants are elderly and live in homes without cg horse what most would deem a suitable kitchen or bathroom. They will not invest in their home even though they have lived there decades and will do until they die. Once a fair rent tenant leaves it is removed from the fair rent register, renovated and let for £1000 plus per month

vickibee · 14/03/2014 16:56

She say without central heating

wowfudge · 14/03/2014 16:56

So, OP, why not let what is currently a temporarily occupied holiday property to a family, at a reasonable rent for a good long time. Or put it on the market at a price that will attract a buyer.

Noddy - I would be interested to know the reason you sold your property. Without the buyer of your house, where would you be now? Could you not have let it to a family yourself?

LessMissAbs · 14/03/2014 16:58

cwoss? Jesus Christ.

This one for Caitlin17. Don't you think that the requirement in the city we both have rental properties in to use their standard lease or get their (non-legally qualified) approval for amendments thereto is a breach of the human right to contract and also to privacy in your own home? Alongside a restriction on the basic right of entitlement in Scots law to the "fruits" of your own property?

That council actually cut and pasted several sections of my lease I sent to them for approval into their own standard lease, without my permission, in their first version!

Caitlin17 · 14/03/2014 16:58

Fideline no MissAbs is not silly but you are a hypocrite. You keep banging on about amateur and professional landlords but still cannot point to any legal definition of what this might mean other than whatever Humpty Dumpty like meaning you've decided.

You're now being self -pitying about the terrible strain and stress of owning a second home.

I don't know about English law but in Scotland you can create a secure tenancy (an Assured Tenancy ) I'm sure the option is available in England if you don't set it up as an AST.

As others have said why not do this or sell at below market value to a deserving first time buyer. Why would you want to hold on to a house as an investment given the views you've expressed here.

wowfudge · 14/03/2014 17:03

vickibee - your point on fair rent properties is a good one. How many tenants are prepared to put work in when we are always hearing that rent is 'dead money' and that paying rent merely lines the landlord's pockets?

angry, it's capitalism in action. What you have stated is not far away from suggesting that those people with a certain level of income should give the rest, which hypothetically they don't need, to those less fortunate to themselves.

angryangryyoungwoman · 14/03/2014 17:07

That's ok Fideline, this thread seems to have become centered around your situation and for what it's worth, I am what you have been accused of being ;a champagne socialist. I just believe everyone is entitled to the champagne, not just some... Smile
Hi missabbs, I think the number of properties should be restricted rather than the number of mortgages. Going back to your previous post mentioning thatcher and the sell off of social housing stock, do you think the solution to the problems we are talking about, e.g homelessness, people not able to buy even one home for themselves would be solved by the building of more social housing or do you suggest another solution? Would be interested to hear what your positive solutions would be.

wowfudge · 14/03/2014 17:09

I gave one earlier angry. But I don't believe homelessness and enabling people to buy a house for themselves would be achieved by building more social housing.

wowfudge · 14/03/2014 17:10

Sorry - ending homelessness

angryangryyoungwoman · 14/03/2014 17:11

Hi wowfudge, it is capitalism but also market failure which could be addressed for the benefit of the majority. We are discussing how...

And the second part of your point described the tax system...

Caitlin17 · 14/03/2014 17:14

LessMiss who told you your lease had to be approved by the Council? The Council provide a model tenancy style but unless it's an HMO condition (I don't have HMO) there's nothing which permits them to force the use of their style.

wowfudge · 14/03/2014 17:18

No angry, earlier in this thread I suggested HAs compulsorily purchase rental stock and manage it, set the rents, deal with the tenants.

MoreBeta · 14/03/2014 17:18

If you restrict rents you get two thinsg happening::

  1. you get a shortage of rental property as LL will not make the investment without a sensible return;
  1. what little rental property is available will be in very poor condition as a LL will not invest in repairs as the rent is not high enough.

You will get slum landlords for sure. That will not be good for tenants.

I bought my own house last year but rented for 30 years before that. I always rented from private LLs and most were good or very good to us.

LessMissAbs · 14/03/2014 17:18

I don't know AngryYoungWoman, homelessness is not my field and I wouldn't profess to know about the multitude of problems that contribute to it. I am sure there is a huge difference between the tenant that consistently doesn't pay their rent/damages property and is evicted for this and other decent genuine people who for no fault of their own find themselves homeless. Even councils and social housing landlords can and do evict the former. Lets not forget that their neighbours have to be taken into account.

In fact, with HMOs in Scotland, landlords are responsible for the actings of their tenants within the curtilage of their properties, which is a far more onerous duty than on social landlords. But it probably also creates a duty also to evict troublesome tenants to avoid being sued by the neighbours...

Do you have a solution for ending homelessness Angry? Is there any country in the world which has achieved it, and how?

LessMissAbs · 14/03/2014 17:20

Wowfudge No angry, earlier in this thread I suggested HAs compulsorily purchase rental stock and manage it, set the rents, deal with the tenants

Did they not try that in the Soviet Union? And then you would read about doctors and award winning writers and scientists living in slum conditions with their families in 1 bedroom flats, sharing bathrooms and kitchens with 3 neighbouring families...