To be a bit dubious of the whole slimming world thing.....

[LEMmingaround]

Ok so i am on a diet - i feel like the dog is in danger of being eaten if he sits down too long!

I am looking at the slimming world website - but i'm really irritated by all the BRANDS! Nearly all their recipes from the "cook from scratch" diet has a tin of Baxters something or other, Jordans cereal etc - why can't they just say - a tin of soup, a generic breakfast cerial - they even specified nestle products..........

Im not going to get on iwht them am i?

sorry about the sideways pic

I have to second (third?) the use of myfitnesspal. It really helped me to make better choices based on portion sizes and food choices, I have lost 4 stone so far and dont feel like I am depriving myself of anything.

I've done Slimming World several times over the years- in principle if you cook from scratch it's pretty healthy, but for someone with binge eating problems like I've had it was a disaster. And the meetings...oh god, the never ending meetings. The last time I went it was 2.5 hours long, each person taking their turn to talk about their week (mostly about how they had cheated/ fallen off the wagon that week).

I used to be part of a big SW group on Facebook, and that drove me nuts as so many people spend a lot of time trying to come up with substitutes for the things they 'can't' have- smash pizza and pasties, cauliflower rice, lasagne sheet crisps etc.

I've finally started to see progress with my weight loss after using myfitnesspal and going down the good old calorie counting route. So easy to do, no need for pretend versions of foods I like. I do know people who've done SW with success but the majority are several attempts/ years down the line and no further forward.

I agree that the focus should be on changing your eating pattern for life not following a fad diet that you cannot commit to.

At present I eat my meals from a side plate. Each item of food is placed side by side as oppose to being piled up. This automatically deals with portion control. I havelost 1st 1lb in two months. I have not cut out any foods but eat less of them.

I want to lose 7 lb although I am not overweight. My BMI is under 25.

It does look good LEM doesn't it! I think I might try it myself. I have lost just under3 stone with another 4.5 to go, so I know how you feel. When I first started it felt like it would take forever but now I'm into it, it's really not that bad.

The problem with the it works if you stick to the plan thing is that even if this is true, it is also true that most people cannot 'stick to the plan' (SW/WW/practically any diet) for the rest of their lives. We are encouraged to believe that if this happens it is the fault of the individual, who blames themselves for being weak willed/etc - in fact they are NORMAL. People who don't have problems with their weight aren't usually strong willed - they just have a hunger-satiety system which works to maintain their weight around the right weight. People who are over weight tend to have overridden the hunger-satiety system at some point (often by unnecessary DIETING or eating for emotional reasons) and their physiology is now trying to maintain the new normal - at a higher weight.

I really recommend The Compassionate Mind Approach to Beating Overeating which both my mum and I are working through at the moment. She's doing it as part of work with a therapist, I've just started reading it in a self-help fashion.

I don't know yet if the techniques are helpful for losing weight (haven't got to those yet) but it makes a lot of sense in the way it describes the problem of overeating. It simultaneously explains what is not the individual's fault (human physiology, access to effectively unlimited high calorie food in the West, the way processed food is tailored to be as irresistible as possible and marketed cleverly) which removes the shame (which tends to lead to more overeating) and it empowers the individual to do what they can to address any emotional overeating and to work with their physiology rather than against it.

It describes the symptoms of dieting/famine in a way that sounded very familiar - it was reassuring knowing that its a normal reaction to dieting and not some sign of weakness. (And just because the effects of dieting are like the effects of intermittent famine doesn't mean we're just talking about ultra low calorie faddy diets).

Whoever suggested My fitness pal - Thankyou I think I may have found "the one". Only day 2 but its really good, i was a bit dubious about calorie counting but its all there for you, it also calculates the amount of calories that i used on my bike ride yesterday - result! I have lost about 2-4pounds this week anyway, but i prefer the calorie counting as im not scared to eat. Have set myself a target of 1400 calories a day, but can earn more with exercise - was just about under that target yesterday but had more left over because I exercised. I can scan bar codes for calorie counts and there is a data base so cooking from scratch is easy. The best thing - its free!!! It also has the same sort of aims/goals as the NHS one but being able to use it with my phone is perfect for me as i am surgically attached to it most of the time. Another plus - i'm not hungry :)

Honestly cannot understand why anyone would bother with SW or WW type things when this sort of thing is available which is better and free!

Lemming. There are so many gimmicky things around I'm glad you've found something that works for you. The only thing that gets rid of fat is a calorie deficit. The only thing. Whatever way you dress it up, clean eating, ww, sw,5:2, Dukan, I've tried them all. They all (apart from slimming world)worked in their own way but they are creating a deficit.
There's a good website, will try and link..www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-to-lose-fat/ that explains fat loss properly with no gimmicky crap.
There's also a thing on it about 'starvation mode' that is worth a read and is based on science not what a SW leader tells you,which is normally rubbish.
Best of luck, you will do it!

"Honestly cannot understand why anyone would bother with SW or WW type things when this sort of thing is available which is better and free!"

It's better for you, I don't think it makes it better though. I mean I'm glad you're positive about it and I wish you good luck, but it's not better for me.

I've tried a few things and anything that I have to count things, calories, points whatever...they make me obsessive - I spend all day looking up what I can and can't have, deciding how I'm going to use those calories and not always making the best choices about what I do eat because I realize that I can skip dinner and have chocolate

My issue isn't how much I eat or even knowing what to eat, it's that I eat terribly - so slimming world works for me because it encourages me to eat real food (fruit, veg, pulses, eggs - not things like muller light) and I'm then more likely to also have healthier snacks instead of not eating all day and then going, ooh I'm starving I'm going to grab the quickest junk food I can find.

I need the structure of it all just being worked out for me what's ok to have and what to limit to stop me being silly about what I choose and to stop me spending all day thinking about it. I can buy ingredients and just make things from them without having to really think about it.

So I don't think anything's better, just suits different people.

"Honestly cannot understand why anyone would bother with SW or WW type things when this sort of thing is available which is better and free!"

I have tried myfitnesspal, and for me it is not better.

Slimmingworld isn't about counting calories, so it IS sustainable. It is about planning and healthy eating and learning how to balance real life with it's events and birthdays and meals out with an eating plan that means you can treat yourself and still lose weight or maintain. It fits in with my family - I don't have to figure out how much of the meal I am making I can eat compared to how much the family can. And it's about eating real food. Yes, there are some things like laughing cow cheese triangles and muller lights that are allowed on plan, but it's hardly in the league of slimfast shakes - these are things that people eat on a daily basis even if they are not on slimming world - but you don't have to have them. I notice that nobody mentioned the majority of the recipes on there - like chicken tikka masala or cottage pie, from scratch. The Baxters soup is there to show that you don't have to cook from scratch all the time - but there are plenty of soup recipes available if you prefer to. I don't use tinned soup, I don't like it, but I make lots of homemade soups.

Myfitnesspal is a great tool, don't get me wrong. But there is no way that I would still be using it now. Having to count every single item that I eat every day is just not sustainable for me - I don't have the time or interest in doing that. I'd rather make a meal that fits into what is quite wide guidelines and eat as much of it as I need to at that moment in time.

If people are looking for pretend food that is a bit like what they usually eat, then it's little wonder they go wrong. They are better off using the real food that they like within the parameters of the plan - and there is the flexibility to do that. You can have crisps and chocolate and chips and pizza - just probably not all on the same day. Eating as much as they like of a pretend food is likely to mean that if and when they fall off plan they will go back to eating as much as they want of the non-pretend food. Learning new habits of how much of the real stuff can be eaten is likely to be far more sustainable long term.

It does irritate me slightly that people are criticising a plan that they haven't tried and don't fully know the ins and outs of. You shouldn't judge slimming world on the basis of lasagne sheet crisps - not least because they are an invention by people that don't want to stop eating what they have always had, rather than by sw - and sw have come out and said that they are not 'free' on the plan.

I have recently started Slimming World and am finding this thread quite interesting. I have been worried that my greed may sabotage me as the consultant may not be aware how much " eat as much as you like" really is for me.

That said, I am definitely eating much more healthily on the plan now I have got the hang of it a bit. But then, I was big on microwave meals before I started and have now cut them out because they all contain syns and they are never worth sacrificing a glass of wine for. I haven't had any bread or sandwiches since I started four or five weeks ago and am not missing that at all apart from the convenience aspect. DH and I have both eaten a number of their recipes which have all been delicious so far (again, I am a bit concerned about my portion sizes, but we shall see).

I was a big consumer of cereal bars and chocolate, puddings and cakes before I started and have now dropped all of these (except for the odd piece of chocolate as a syn) in favour of fruit.

Unfortunately I can't really judge the weight loss success of the plan because, having lost just over half a stone in 3 weeks (not bad considering I had been doing 5:2 (unsuccessfully) before hand so didn't have that first-week-on-a-diet major loss some people get) I have since had two big drinking/eating weekends in a row for family birthdays where I have just thought what the hell and got on with it. That is over now so we shall see....

Personally, I like all the clapping and support at the meetings, but I do agree that some of the substitute brownie/cheesecake ideas sound bogging, as does Mullerlight and porridge for breakfast - boak!

lasagne sheet crisps??? oh perleaaase, you are joking surely, tell me you are joking??? you are aren't you I am not dismissing SW for those that it works for, but i can't help but wonder if people are being ripped off. Its £59 to join online for the first three months and i genuinely cannot see, having looked into it, what it offers over and above the free healthy eating plan offered by the NHS. My Fitness pal just seems to be a place to log your food intake and exercise rather than a regieme of any form, so i don't actually have to think very much on it - SW looks too complicated and would give me brain ache.

" And it's about eating real food. Yes, there are some things like laughing cow cheese triangles and muller lights that are allowed on plan, but it's hardly in the league of slimfast shakes - these are things that people eat on a daily basis even if they are not on slimming world" clearly not, otherwise it wouldn't have been what put me off. I thnk thats my problem with SW it tells you WHAT to eat - for MFP its up to me, it just tells me how many calories are in it. Having planned and eaten for today i am on a calorie deficit and its telling me to eat more to avoid "starvation mode" i think someone upthread mentioned so i might just have a penguin later

I must admit I don't really see the value of the online plan because that, to me, is still doing it by yourself which is what I have failed at in the past. But paying out money for something is a big incentive in itself I suppose. You don't want to pay 59 and then just drop it so that may give some people enough motivation.

I need the weekly weigh-ins as my motivation. The thought that I am going to stay the same or gain whilst others lose helps to keep me on the straight and narrow. That and the thought of another summer in my fat clothes!

Each to his or her own though.

I don't think you can really blame slimming world for the mad crisp/cake recipe substitutes - people are coming up with those on their own pretty much. I could definitely do without the Mullerlight obsession though. They are ghastly.

Also while cheese triangles and mullerlights are allowed on plan they are not required. Just for some people a sweet yogurt or some already portioned up cheese is convenient and maybe something that works for them as a substitute for something else.

Calorie counting is obviously a lot easier as you can find calorie contents on almost all packets, but if your eating habits aren't very healthy it isn't going to bnecessarily reeducate you. SW makes it so much easier to eat fruit and veg than to eat bad things, I find.

For example, if I am in a train station with nothing but a Costa Coffee, say, there is almost nothing I can be sure I can eat there without racking up syns except a banana. Whilst there is obviously a limit to how many bananas you should eat in a day, that has to be better than a biscuit or a mini-muffin or something (which is what I would have gone for otherwise).

I am quite crap though and have been fat for a looooong time.

Oh online it doesn't offer anything over anything else available online for free...

I go to classes, the weigh in gives you a focus, you can swap recipes with other people - you can be told that things like lasagne crisps (nope not tried them either) aren't ok to eat just because technically they're on the free food list.

See I like the easiness of being told what to eat - because then I can just make meals.

I want a curry for instance, I know all my veg is free, spices, quorn, chickpeas, lentils or lean meat if I ate it, so I can just make a curry without having to weigh anything or trying to work out how much my portion is. I'm not having to weigh my rice I can just have a sensible portion.

But slimming world doesn't tell you what to eat. It doesn't tell you 'eat laughing cow light triangles' or 'eat mullerlights'. They are available for you to CHOOSE to eat them, but they aren't an essential.

There is a HUGE list of foods to choose from, that you can eat freely (within certain, healthy, limitations), everything else you can still have, but in moderation.

It's far from prescriptive.

Yes it's just dreadful how the common people are sucked in. Never mind that obese and depressed lonely people find a supportive group that may change their lives. What do you actually think they were buying before? Organic locally produced fare from Boden? No, more likely fast food and branded crap.

I don't think Boden make clothes theodorous!

I used to go to weight watchers and used to find the weigh ins really depressing actually, but if it works for them, thats great. But when we are really honest about it SW and WW are in it for the money. If i want nutritional information i will go to my GP or reputable websites, or a nutritionist (if i could afford it), are the people who run the meetings nutritionists?

Of course they are doing it to make money

But so is your GP or your nutritionist.

Just because the people that run the classes aren't nutritionists, doesn't mean the plan itself hasn't been devised by one.....

But if i am to be given nutritional advice, that will affect my health, i should like it to come from someone who has actually studied nutrition at a level that qualifies them to give that advice. Don't you just have to have lost weight using the plan to be an advisor with one of these things?

Anyway, i am making myself sound like i am anti WW and SW i am not really. I can see how a support group would be good for some people, but its not for me and as someone said above - it is not in their interests for you to keep the weight off, or they would go bust! But if it works for you - thats great. I have a friend who is a nurse who uses SW and she raves about it, she has lost loads of weight and looks fantastic, its staying off too so it can't be all bad. I think thats what irked me really, that she told me all about it and i was really excited but then when i looked on the website i was really disappointed.

If you are going to a weight loss club looking for nutritional advice, then you are looking in the wrong place.

They are not there to advise on nutrition, they are there to advise on a diet plan. Which (I am fairly sure) has been devised with nutrition in mind.

It's nonsense to say that it's not in their interests for people to keep the weight off. These are the stories that they rely on to get new members through the door. If it wasn't in their interest for people to keep the weight off, why would they allow members at goal to attend free of charge to continue getting the support and advice? They WANT these memebrs there so they can say 'look, she has done it, so can you!'

There will always be 'new' overweight people that need support. It's not a case of once they have dealt with this group there won't be new members....

Lem, if you went to a doctor with health problems related to weight, the doctor may arrange for the nhs to pay for you to go to ww or sw rather than refer you to a nhs nutrionist. That is because the nhs's own research shows that patients referred to ww and sw are more likely to lose weight and keep it off than those who have ongoing advice from an nhs nutrionist.

Just making a curry loaf using rice, chick pea dahl, peas, onions and three eggs. In the oven cooking and is delicious. Not a Muller light in sight.

With SW, they tell you how many syns(points, effectively) each good item has so that you can plan accordingly. I suppose they have to do this with branded products as they can't just say that a tin of soup contains so many syns as they are all different? It worked quite well for me, although I didn't take it too seriously, but I didn't take it as professional nurtritional advice, just what is good to eat to lose weight.