To help me with this apostrophe- or not!

[Amythesianwaterfall]

I am looking for guidance here oh grammar goddesses of mumsnet!

Should there be an apostrophe in the phrase:

Future Leaders Programme ?

I think it should be: Future Leaders' Programme.
However the written information I have received does not contain one. Thank you!

If 'Leaders' is iterative or descriptive rather than possessive, it does not need an apostrophe.

Wibbly Well, why be incorrect, when one can aim for absolutely incorrect.

I wouldn't want to be ordinarily wrong. That would be boring!

I have to wade in here, and say that it depends whether you feel you are making a compound noun from the words Future Leaders, and whether the word Programme is part of the title or not.

Damn, it was really clear in my head before I started typing and now I can't explain it. But I am sure that those of you who are so confident that there MUST be an apostrophe are wrong. It's a grey area, as grammar and punctuation so often are.

Wibbly - I'll let you explain that to Unilever, BP, Barclays, AXA, RIBA and the Future Leaders Trust then

I didn't really understand the example about Mrs Salisbury's history class. Is it just me?

Future Leaders Programme is correct. No aprostrophe as the Future Leaders do not own the programme. Future Leaders is a description of the topic.

But there is no way, without ESP, of knowing whether all attendees will be future leaders (though they may aspire to be). Therefore the programme does not belong to future leaders, it is simply the name of the programme; so no apostrophe.

So slow. I think SPB has explained it better since I started typing and Abra1d knows more about it than me.

Damn, I hate it when that happens.

mrsbabookaloo I wanted to use "compound noun" as part of my explanation, but I was scared no-one would understand what I meant.

Who's right? we expect primary school children to get this right and moan at school secretaries and teachers when they get the flying comma in the wrong place.

noddy is spot on

I love SPB's version.

Descriptive Phrases Without Apostrophes
"Don't use apostrophes in such primarily descriptive phrases as a New York Mets outfielder, a teachers college, a writers manual, a childrens book, the agencies request. As the AP Stylebook helpfully notes, the apostrophe is usually skipped if 'for' or 'by' would go better than 'of' in a longer version: college for teachers, manual for writers, request by the agencies.

Tell you what, anyone that can make a compelling case either way, can attend the program.

That should sort the shit from the clay.

Mrs Salisbury's maths class would have been better. Or is its maths' class.

Exactly Stealth

What is this programme? is it a programme being presented to or being offered up to future leaders? or is it a programme presented by future leaders?

But you would have to use an apostrophe in 'a children's book' because the 's' shows possession as 'children' is already a plural.

I can see both sides. If it's meant to be the Leaders programme then it should be Leaders' programme. But if it's just describing the type of programme and Leaders is being used as an adjective then it wouldn't need the apostrophe. I expect this makes no sense to anyone.

PuppyMonkey I very much doubt it. People often look far more confused after my explanations. I tried to explain the difference between subjective and objective, once. Did not go well...

I was trying to explain the difference between descriptive and possessive names this time!

Ok here ya go:
'Future Leaders' programme (apostrophes around the phrase if the course etc is simply called 'Future Leaders')

OR Future Leaders' programme. (if it's the programme for a group of Future Leaders)

puppy I have Absolutely No Clue what that history lesson Mrs Salisbury thing was all about, either, heheh. Or the Future Cats. EH? What point was being made there?

Oh good, I feel much better now.

Sorry Tilly I'm a slow typer - aha, I see…I think.

Puppy - good. See how slow I am. But the aposts are RIGHT I tell ye.

Have you ever said, in your whole life, "I'm going to Geography's class?"

Or is it always, without you even thinking about it, "I'm going to Geography class"?

Would you go to Life Drawing Classes or Life Drawing's Classes?

Music Tuition, or Music's Tuition?

The latter just sounds wrong doesn't it?