To really want to say something to these abortion protestors?

[Crocodileclip]

Firstly, I know I will probably never say anything as I appreciate that the protestors have the right to protest but it really pisses me off.

A small group of people have been protesting outside the Marie Stoppes clinic in Belfast since it opened in 2012. They stand outside the door on the days it is open holding anti abortion posters and trying to gather signatures for a petition. I pass them on my way to get to the station at home time and every time it annoys me. I can't imagine how offputting they would be if you were young and scared and just wanting some advice. Lots of pics of aborted foetuses etc. I find it intimidating enough myself and I am just walking past. I actually put my head down and walk quicker so that nobody asks me to sign the petition.

I'm currently pregnant with my second and am lucky never to have been in a position where abortion was an option but am of the opinion that there are situations in which it may be the best option available.

The clinic itself operates within NI law so only offers abortions up to 9 weeks and as far as I know is the only such clinic in Northern Ireland. I think I would be ok with the protestors doing their stuff elsewhere in the city centre it is the fact that it is just outside the only entrance to the clinc that makes me irrationally angry. Does this happen at other Marie Stoppes clinics elsewhere in the UK?

different, your post feels a little attacking of me but I think you and I are actually on the same side.

'Is that right more important than the right to safe access to terminations?'

In my opinion no, the right to safe access to terminations is paramount and I wish these protests outside clinics did not exist. However, currently they do. My point was that, if we have free speech then everyone has to have free speech. However, almond's point about hate crimes was an interesting one, which I took on board.

'The whole premise of a protest is that it is factual, is it not?' No, I wouldn't think that all protests are based on hard facts; often I think they're based on opinions and positions.

'That right to protest doesn't mean that they can bully vulnerable women either.'

Unfortunately it does. It doesn't mean that bullying is right or OK in a moral sense; but, at least as things stand at the moment, they can do it in the sense that they may do it.

I find it all extremely sad, upsetting and anger-inducing.

The BNP would not be permitted to protest outside a mosque or synagogue. So why are misogynists allowed to 'protest' outside a clinic providing healthcare to vulnerable women?

They may be entitled to their opinions but they are not entitled to harass, alarm or distress anyone else.

OnlyLovers Not attacking you at all. If it came across that way, I apologise. Just getting caught up in the emotion of the thread, I guess.

different!, yes, it's hard not to. We are on the same side, I think. Truce!

edam, I hadn't really thought about the parallels with hate crime/the BNP etc until you, and others on the thread, raised them. It's very thought-provoking.

One thing it makes me think about is the fact that some women are anti-choice, not just men. Does this mean that it's not only 'misogynists' who protest against abortion clinics? Or is it possible for a woman to be a misogynist?

Genuine questions. Am finding this all very interesting.

Yes it is possible for women to be a misogynist.

Yes, it's possible for women to be misogynists, too. The ones that are standing outside clinics with placards could be categorised thus.

Hard to understand women who don't define themselves as feminists though isn't it? Theres an awesome quote from Caitlin Moran about it somewhere...

Here:

On International Women's Day, no one sums it up more punchily than Caitlin Moran:

'We need to reclaim the word 'feminism'. We need the word 'feminism' back real bad. When statistics come in saying that only 29% of American women would describe themselves as feminist - and only 42% of British women - I used to think, What do you think feminism IS, ladies? What part of 'liberation for women' is not for you? Is it freedom to vote? The right not to be owned by the man you marry? The campaign for equal pay? 'Vogue' by Madonna? Jeans? Did all that good shit GET ON YOUR NERVES? Or were you just DRUNK AT THE TIME OF THE SURVEY?'

differentname, you seem determined to take offence at anything I write. I think it is ridiculous that your doctor refused to let you be sterilised but signed off on an abortion for you and I would have kicked up a huge fuss about it. I'm not sure why more people wouldn't tbh. If he had refused to sign off on your/someone else's abortion would you have let him away with that?

Your example about the woman in the foodbank isn't really to do with availability of abortion. Her DH is the problem there - she should have access to contraception and sterilisation(if that is what she wants). It's like people campaigning to make abortion available in countries where abortion is currently illegal and completely ignoring the fact that those women don't have access to contraception or sex education.

I think it might be the view that to call yourself a true feminist you need to support abortions to term tbh. I would consider myself a feminist but I do not support a situation where abortion to term needs to exist to support women's rights.

Bumbley Ireland has access to contraception but no access to abortion it must be your holy grail. We can even sterilise women if they have enough money to pay for it.

pomme, maybe they don't prioritise the right of a woman to choose to have an abortion for any reason to term over the right to life of the foetus after a certain point? Or maybe they don't want to be identified as a feminist because so many women (including many MNers) give feminism a bad name?

Can someone explain why we keep talking about sterilisation in the same context as abortion and contraception? Isn't sterilisation a much bigger deal? This is an honest question; it would not have occurred to me that lots of women in the UK want to get sterilised just because they don't want more kids.

"I think it might be the view that to call yourself a true feminist you need to support abortions to term" That's what some people on this thread seem to be saying. By that definition, you couldn't call yourself a feminist because you place conditions on when a woman has the right to choose.

Yes, almond, it's a much bigger deal than contraception. It isn't something I had really thought about and I didn't think it was that common until I started hearing friends and family discussing it. Maybe I'm just at the age where people are making those decisions - they think their family is complete and they want to reduce the risk of an unplanned pregnancy as much as possible. I'm not sure why it would ranked as a bigger deal above abortion - but maybe that's just me!

Sure Bumbley the 16 year old should rate abortion at the same level as sterilisation. You do realise that not every woman is you or is in your situation no scratch that we already know you able to empathise is hampered, you told us that earlier.

You able= your ability

It would rank as a bigger deal than an abortion, based on my understanding of what sterilisation involves as a medical procedure which may be incorrect, because:

1. Abortion is not permanent. You can often have children at a later point. Female sterilisation (depending on the kind) can be irreversible or hard to reverse,
2. Sterilisation is a surgical procedure and quite an invasive one. Early abortions are not a surgical procedure. The initial surgical ones are less invasive than a sterilisation.

Well, seeing as you seem to recognise that everyone is different, it is conceivable that for some people making the decision to terminate a pregnancy would be harder than making the decision to be sterilised. Not everyone having abortions is 16 and some abortions are surgical procedures.

Also, it's not only women who can be sterilised.

I go past that spot a few times a week and god it makes my blood boil! My heart breaks for the poor people who have to contend with those narrow minded lunatics, both staff and patients. Yes they have a right to their opinion but Christ, do they have no compassion towards the scared, vulnerable people using that clinic. Even worse were the idiots protesting outside the White Stuff and Starbucks in Belfast city centre recently, who were handing out leaflets and had big picture boards up showing gruesome images of supposed aborted foetuses. On a Saturday, with young kids walking past! Words fail me!

I have been in the same position as these vulnerable women using that clinic and it was the lowest point of my life so far. The shame, guilt and utter despair was bad enough, without having to contend with people like this. I thank God I was in England at the time and able to use a unit within a hospital and didn't have that to contend with. Let those without sin cast the first stone is what I say.

Well, seeing as you seem to recognise that everyone is different, it is conceivable that for some people making the decision to terminate a pregnancy would be harder than making the decision to be sterilised. Not everyone having abortions is 16 and some abortions are surgical procedures.

Bumbley most people on this thread have recognised the shades of grey that exist in life, it is you that struggles with that. I don't doubt there are people who struggle with having an abortion but I unlike you feel desperately sorry for the place they have arrived at in their life that brought them to have to make that decision.

Another, you need to stop assuming that you know how I think and feel. You've made some pretty sweeping generalisations on this thread so you aren't really in a position to be saying that anyone 'struggles with shades of grey'.

Bumbley you have made vile comments that I would normally report but i think it is better that people can judge you based on your own words.

Oh and my last observation was based on your inability to empathise with the situation that was presented with earlier on the thread. I actually hate to think what you would be capable of saying to someone who was actually faced with having an abortion.

I was sterilised at 32 after 2 children and definitely not wanting any more. Best decision I ever made - (22 years ago)To me having an abortion would have been a much bigger deal - certainly mentally and emotionally if not physically

Women need legal access to both.