To think my brother is being an idiot

[Verycold]

His dd has repeatedly expressed a wish to learn the violin or recorder. Db won't have it "as he can't stand the sound in the house." Yet my nephew is allowed to learn the guitar, as that is agreeable apparently

Why my dsil lets him get away with it I'll never know. If only we lived closer I'd happily let my niece keep and practise an instrument at ours...

Maybe we should stop our dc drawing and colouring as well? After all they make a right mess when they first start don't they?

If a child shows an interest in music I think it is a great pity not to encourage it. Even if she doesn't carry on with it she will learn some valuable skills. Might your db look at getting a keyboard and letting her learn the piano? If she likes that she could move on to a violin or wind instrument later, and will pick it up more quickly because she will already know how to read music and deal with things like timing.

Very ignorant attitude. I just don't get why someone wouldn't want to encourage their child. And for purely selfish reasons, as opposed to the example of not letting them do kick boxing, which is based on a concern for the child.

Yes, the violin can sound horrible at first, but not especially more than other instruments. I'm biased as a string player, but the opportunities I have had through music are some of the best things I've done in life. Once they get older and better and can play in orchestras etc it really is a very fulfilling experience. (And violins are a pretty good choice as you need up to say 25 in an orchestra compared to a max of 4 flutes - you've got to be really very good as a flautist to have the opportunities to play when you get past school age).

There are reasonable reasons not to tell them do something, e.g. if they've got lots of other interests and you don't want them to spread themselves too thin, but this guy is just selfish.

Electric violin. Seriously, you can get them for around £20 more than a decentish normal one and they come with headphones . I've taken it up again after 20 years and have a lovely electric one: turn it on, plug it in, play. You can still hear it but the sound is reduced according to DH who lovingly puts up with me trying to remember my finger positions!
Encouraging them to consider other options is fine, banning them completely is ridiculous and very short sighted. DD had the choice of woodwind or brass, we did rather big up the woodwind a bit more but the final choice was hers. She chose the flute and loves it. Maybe she'll take it to a high level, maybe not. That's up to her. DS has decided rather late on that he wants to try the piano. He has a cheapish keyboard (my old one) because he genuinely isn't very musical. Again, if he wants to keep trying then good for him. He does play the Bodhran quite well!
YANBU, Encouraging children to try an instrument can only be good for them, your Brother needs to get over himself and tune it out like parents have done for decades.

That's actually how I learned, nennypops. I started off bashing my auntie's piano when I was five, so my parents got me a keyboard and lessons. Then I started on wind instruments when I was nine and picked it up really quickly. I was a competent player within a few months.

It's a really good way to learn, I think. The only thing I wish had been different was that I'd had piano lessons instead of keyboard, as now I have weird muscle memory for forming chords with my left hand, which is really difficult to 'break' if you want to learn piano.

Hmmm what about piano? I got my daughter a piano keyboard and she uses headphones so no problem with noise (although I love listening to her play )

Obviously if I'd had the money I would have got her a proper piano, but she's very happy playing on a good keyboard.

Maddy boo to me for wanting the best for my nuece

I live in a different country, so letting her play here not an option

You don't know that is his real reason. Sounds like the sort of thing you might say in a jokey way because you don't want to say the real reason.

I've given light excuses to my dc for not taking up something. The real reasons have been along the lines of "you're already doing too much", "That's too expensive", "it clashes with something your sibling does", "You already do something similar and paying for both is not sensible", "You will really struggle with this and get frustrated", "It's a psssing fad and you only want to do it because A does it/you were told about it in assembly by the sales person..." "you don't practice what you already do" etc.

He hasn't said she can't learn any instrument, just those two, and I suspect the fact he is saying no is probably making her want to more.

And my parents let my db learn the violin. He did 40 lessons a year, at around 10 each for 10 years. That's costing 4000 plus paying out for the instrument (had 2 because of change in size), music (not cheap), transport etc.
Problem was he is tone deaf. He eventually (3rd attempt) passed the grade 1. It would have been much better for him (as well as anyone who had to hear him) if my parents had pushed him towards an instument that depended less on his musical ear. By my dm felt because he wanted that instrument, that was his choice.

I am totally understanding of the OP's brother!
I worked as a "dinner lady" for a couple of years at a junior school. Violin and recorder lessons were held at luntimes.
It was pure torture!!!!!!!!!!

Your niece's name isn't Matilda is it?

I think the problem here is that you feel your brother isn't supporting your niece and is just dismissing her desire to learn an instrument out of hand because he doesn't really like or understand the instruments she is interested in and doesn't really care about giving her the opportunity to learn an instrument.

My DD wanted to learn violin. I wanted her to learn the recorder instead as I thought it would be easier to start off with and she could move on to a wind instrument later on.

I asked DD's music teacher what she thought and she said that DD was musical and would do well on the violin. I also spoke to a friend whose mother had made her learn the recorder when she had really wanted to learn the piano and it had put her off music completely.

DD started violin lessons on the basis that they would stop if she didn't practice every day. After six weeks of practice I bought her a decent violin. She has now been learning for six months, can play lots of simple tunes and it sounds lovely. Well occasionally I yell from the kitchen that a note is out!

If you think you can influence your brother or perhaps your sister in law in a positive way then the extra curricular activities section of Mumsnet will be able to provide good advice about the ins and outs of different instruments.

Recorders = shit

Violins are better, but unless you join an orchestra, you won't play one as an adult.

My children have a choice of guitar or piano. Anything else I don't see why I should pay thousands of pounds for something they will likely give up when they are about 12 and then never play again the rest of their lives.

It's reality - most children play violin for a few years making a horrible screeching noise and then give up without ever gaining proficiency. Yes ok they learned about music, but there are more practical instruments.

Your brother is being perfectly sensible.

I currently have one girl learning keyboard one learning guitar and I am teaching smallest to play recorder. My boy started guitar but didn't enjoy it. He can read music tho. My eldest played flute for a while. She now plays guitar.

I started smallest on recorder as we have one, I can play it (fairly well actually) and as she is only five it is easy for her to pick up. I am also teaching her to read music and can remind her how not to be a screachy whilst playing. She goes to recorder club at school on Fridays.

When she gets to year three she will have the option of school music lessons. I think I may steer her towards clarinet at that point.

I have vetoed brass instruments I am afraid as we have thin walls and my husband works nights which would impact on practise. None of mine were desperate to learn brass anyway so not a huge issue.

VeryCold, Just to repeat what I said in my previous post if you post on the Extra Curricular Activities section of Mumsnet under Education then you will be more likely to find advice from people who are interested in and understand musical instruments.

On a positive note though given the responses so far on this thread perhaps it isn't that your brother doesn't care about your niece and prefers your nephew after all.

Obviously there are genuinely lots of people out there who think that violins and recorders are horrible things to play and that the fact that some people don't learn to play them well means that no one should try in the first place.

The number one factor in learning to play an instrument successfully is whether a child practices or not. So the motivation of the child themselves to learn is key.

More practical in what way? In my experience, it doesn't make much difference what the instrument is - if they are going to give up after a couple of years they will do.

What does make a big difference when they are a bit older is having opportunities to play in groups. Then you can see what all the practice is about.

(replying to agapanthers)

I think an orchestral instrument is particularly useful because it offers the opportunity to play in a group!

children don't always come first. Adults in a family are important too, and we dont have to give kids everything they want to be good parents.

My DD does both violin & recorder. Luckily her room is at the top of our 3 floored house and the kitchen is out in the extension.

She played my twinkle twinkle the other day on her violin and my eardrums didn't burst. It's not that long before they're competent. The piano is in the kitchen and I don't mind the sound of the kids messing about on that at all. The youngest has started guitar. We thought we didn't want two violins or recorders competing with each other.

My mother didn't allow me to take up any instrument, and I resent her for it along with countless other bad choices she made while bringing me up

It's not about a child coming first. It's about imposing your will upon your child to prevent them from doing something that is fantastic for their development and motor skills and has many positives attached just because you don't want to hear a few recorder or violin squawks. How are they ever supposed to find out if they do have musical talent or get any good at playing these instruments if you prevent them from playing them? As I said earlier by that token, perhaps we should prevent them having pens and chalks because they do make an awful mess while they are learning to use them and developing the motor skills required don't they?

woah, projecting much? you don't know that at all.

Parents impose their will on children 10 times before breakfast. Don't be so precious.

YANBU

It's different imposing your will on them because it's best for them (not eating chocolate for breakfast) from doing it because you don't want the inconvenience.

What am I projecting ?

That's not the same thing at all, don't be ridiculous.

Tell him to learn the violin with her and he will change his tune once he is involved with the instrument.

suggests he buys her a saxophone and if he moans, tell him you will get her a bassoon next, which is really hard to live with when someone is learning.