To think that 45 year old British citizen should know what I'm talking about.....

[Bekindtoyourknees]

when I mention the wars in Slovenia, Bosnia, Croatia etc?

His excuse: 'I wasn't there, so why should I know about them?'

I thought there was nothing left to shock me at work, seems I was wrong

Years even....

Realise that genocide isn't something that happens to other people in other places or other times. This was close to home, twenty years ago. Neighbours turned on each other. It can happen all too easily once groups within society become labelled as "other" and ill-feeling is stirred up against them. It can happen under our noses when we are all sitting around smugly congratulating ourselves on how much we've learned from the Holocaust and how obviously it could never happen again in Europe. It can happen to people like us, if we aren't vigilant.

I understand this. I remember watching a programme about the steps to genocide after Rwanda. Knowing about the Holocaust didn't stop the genocide in the Balkans war though did it?

I also don't see why this is more important than many other things that we would benefit from understanding. Where our food comes from, how its supply is controlled etc? Food is pretty important.

I can't see how every man on the clapham omnibus paying attention to individual conflicts on the news is more important than other things.

The point is that everything links to everything else.

I did War Studies BA in the department that studies the subject and forms the theoretical background for the British Military. One thing we learned - the first and most important thing - is that you cannot separate food, energy, technology, water, ethnicity or history. All of them interact to produce the world around you. Not keeping aware of this stuff is like trying to cross the road with your eyes closed - you're an idiot and anything that subsequently happens to you is your fault. In a (theoretical) democracy you are (theoretically) defining the attitudes and policies of the government and embracing or excusing ignorance produces little things like the First World War or Iraq War 2.

However, all this living in a bubble thing is ridiculous. I've travelled extensively, lived abroad, speak 3 languages, and am knowledgeable on some subjects. I can't be expected to know about everything, I'm busy, I'm not going to spend time seeking out information on subjects that I don't find interesting and don't enhance my life in any way.

How? What? and How again?

No one is expected to know about everything but a war 2 hours flying time away? A war that had seeds sown in WWII?

You said talk about WWII was banned but you know it happened, you know people were murdered and put in concentration camps because of their ethnicity.

Don't you think it might have been useful to know that was happening again?

Do you think it is worth knowing that what is happening in the Ukraine might be the start of another war? That it might even be the start of a WW? That the people you (if you vote) have elected to parliament are making choices that might determine whether another WW starts?

Actually I don't know what that is about either. Is it recent?I'm 32. I've been hearing briefly about Ukraine and Russia stuff at the moment but don't have a clue why or how it started or what's is going on.
Same with any war stuff to be honest. I've no interest. I'll probably google it one day. Same with the IRA war thing. I still don't understand it all.
I should be embarrassed but I'm not.

I was asked whether Osama Bin Ladan was 'a gang or sumit innit'. Oh sweet jesus. I don't think I answered.

Really sparkleshine, you don't know anything about the IRA?

Sparkle - aren't you embarrassed by your ignorance? What do you do if people start discussing it?

How are we ever going to change things if we choose not to acknowledge them.

It's the I'm alright Jack (or Jill) syndrome.

Do we not also feel the people who suffered and died in all these atrocities and wars deserve for us to stand testament ?

How are we ever going to change things if we choose not to acknowledge them.

What if you don't believe that things can be changed? Thousands of years of history would suggest that humans are destined to fight over religion, land, trade, politics and pretty much everything else as well, so what exactly are we learning from endless wars the world over?

I'm also confused about 'standing testament' - in what sense? I don't think those who don't know much about recent European history are denying that it has happened. Them not being more aware of event neither harms nor helps the victims in much the same way that my having a vague understanding of what went on doesn't do much to help or otherwise either.

The only way for evil to triumph is for good (wo)men to do nothing, DoJo.

We will never end that which we choose not to acknowledge.

"It's not a radical concept to think that you ought to be at least dimly aware of a major war, lasting over three years, that happened in your own continent when you were an adult in your mid-20s. "

This^

Sweet Jesus, I find this thread depressing. Far more depressing than any news report.

ignorance doesn't depress me. It's a right to be ignorant.
Wilful violence is awful. That's why I'd rather be ignorant about it.

There's a beautiful novel called Cellist of Sarajevo based on a real person if anyone who knows nothing wants to read about what happened in Sarajevo then.

Neo I agree with you up to a point, but if knowing about any and every war is important and everything is connected then everything else is also important and everyone must know and understand everything about everything. That's not possible.

We delegate some depth (and breadth) of knowledge to others. Most people don't know how/have the skills to farm and invent penicillin and produce electricity, construct a car, perform heart surgery. Does everyone need to study Shakespeare and Dostoevsky and lesbian viking poetry from 800AD. It's enough that someone does.

Yes, it's odd that the Balkans war seems to have passed this man by but it doesn't mean he's an idiot. Everyone has gaps in their knowledge. Not everyone is a sponge. Maybe he has skills or knowledge the OP does not have and maybe she should be equally ashamed in his eyes.

The only way for evil to triumph is for good (wo)men to do nothing, DoJo.

I don't believe that is true, and even if it is, I think there is a huge difference between not knowing about a fairly specific series of events in recent European history and 'doing nothing'. Once can be an actively positive contributor to society even if you know nothing about history.

And I still don't think that change is necessarily possible - is there any evidence to suggest that studying war prevents further violence?

Jesus Christ, this thread is depressing. Since when did you need to be actively studying history in order to be aware of the most deadly conflict in Europe since the end of WWII? Which only ended in what, c. 2001? Milosovic only died in the Hague a few years ago, for god's sake.

Yes, it was a complicated set of wars, and I don't think the OP expected her colleague to be able to rattle off exactly which ethnicities were fighting against or with one another in the different constituent republics, but you'd expect him to have a vague sense of what made 'the former Yugoslavia' no longer be 'Yugoslavia' - genocide, ethnic cleansing, the siege of Sarajevo and the Srebrenica massacre. That's just general knowledge, surely?

YAB a bit U, would they have had any bearing whatsoever on his life? Does not knowing about them have any effect on his professional capabilities?

YABU. I watch the news often but still don't understand half of it. It's like if you weren't there at the start you can't catch up

I think i need a 'War for Dummies' guide. Having read this thread i decided to go and look closer at what is happening in the Ukraine. I confess i am no more enlightened now than i was before looking. I don't understand at all what is going on or why. I need the whole thing presented to me in simple terms. Can anyone help me?

25 yrs ago my old flatmate used to moan about needing a class in "Remedial Current Affairs". I rather admire her ability to be ignorant.

The short explanation of Ukraine is that the Russians are behaving like Neanderthals and everyone else are only thinly veiled conniving bastards.

lljkk I had worked that bit out. I did rather think there might be a little more to it though...?

I expect oil is involved somewhere.