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AIBU?

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Original poster

to re-pose the radio 4 question - Is childcare good for CHILDREN?

859 replies

IceBeing · 04/03/2014 08:40

Our dearest Justine and some bloke from the family childcare trust were on radio 4 this morning talking about childcare costs.

They focussed on Mums who would like to work more but cannot afford to due to childcare costs, and a proposal to make more free time available for 2-3 yos.

They both made a compelling case that this situation was bad for the Mums (because they want to work and can't).

They made a reasonable (but by no means obviously correct) argument that it was better for the economy for these Mums to work.

But they were then asked something along the lines of:

" Is increased access to childcare good for children? I mean if it isn't there isn't really any point? "

And they didn't answer AT ALL. They went back to the previous economic answer. Well actually Justine didn't get a chance to respond - so no accusation in her specific direction!

But what is the answer?

Is taking a child out of the home and putting them in nursery for an additional period between 2 and 3 yo (which was the proposal being discussed) actually good for the child?

Do kids in nursery earlier do better/worse at school? Are they happier/less happy? Is this a simple case of happier mummy, happier toddler?

OP posts:
londonkiwi · 07/03/2014 08:11

Yes Janey68 I do care about the plight of other peoples' children, that's why I work in child and family mental health Smile. And sadly, there are children who are much better off in childcare than in their home environment (a minority). That's who I see when I'm working.

And there are confident, sociable children who are probably very happy in a group setting for many hours from a young age. But there are lots who aren't.

I'm not saying young children spending many hours in care is the biggest problem in society, far from it. I'm saying I think it's worth discussing.

And it seems to me that conversations about childcare are often more about what's most convenient for parents, what will enable careers and pensions to best be continued etc rather than a focus on what a young child's experience of long hours in a nursery will actually be like.

Of course money/career are important, and working fulltime is a necessity for many. I have constantly juggled with getting a good balance as a WOHP for the last 6 years. But just because it's a necessity and it can make people feel guilty when it's discussed doesn't mean it's not worth discussing!

FWIW I haven't read the whole thread but there do seem to be lots of nasty comments directed to retropear for daring to say that she thinks being at home is the best thing for kids (hope that's a fair summary of the gist of your comments retro?).

I realise these debates are heated but it seems a shame how often posters make personal attacks.

fideline · 07/03/2014 08:13

"You seem to forget that the large maj of sahp will also be wp and will use childcare. Who do think will be looking after my dc?hmm"

This.

I hadn't quite thought about in those terms but it does explain why the SAHMs dont generally get as catty on these threads as the WOHMs.

Shame. This thread lasted pages in a civilised vein.

janey68 · 07/03/2014 08:14

I think anyone who generalises from their own experience that something is 'best' for children (whether that's working or staying home) is not going to add much to any debate though. None of us can extrapolate what is 'best' from the basis of what works for us as an individual.

LittleBearPad · 07/03/2014 08:16

I'm curious Retro, honestly curious I promise, who is looking after your children? I had assumed you but your post a few above suggests they are in some form of childcare?

fideline · 07/03/2014 08:16

But janey, one's 'experience' is not just of one' s own children, it is drawn from observing every child one has ever known well-ish (i sound like the queen).

LittleBearPad · 07/03/2014 08:17

There have been a number of downright bitchy SAHM on this thread. Not you Retro.

LittleBearPad · 07/03/2014 08:19

The three small children I know best are all in childcare of one form or another, nursery, nanny and childminder with parents who work three days a week. I need a child with a SAHM and then I can carry put my own study Smile

fideline · 07/03/2014 08:22

Yeah this one suddenly got nasty in all directions. Generally though the SAHMs seem more chilled (not all of them) and moderate and retro has hit on why- very nearly all SAHMs are past or future WOHMs. Obvious really.

(small print : I have SAHMed and WOHMed and now i've hit the jackpot and I WIHM -self employed. A good case in point)

janey68 · 07/03/2014 08:26

Probably best to stick to what individual posters are actually writing rather than generalising. After all, we can only be responsible for what we post as individuals- not what anyone else might say

fideline · 07/03/2014 08:37

It IS an interesting point, though, that there are almost no SAHMS-for-life but there are considerably more WOHMS-for-life. It rather destroys the 'them vs us' fallacy.

TeamWill · 07/03/2014 09:02

The majority of posters have done a bit of both SAH,WOH ,Part time etc
The majority of posters think that parents generally do what they think is best for their DC.
Then along comes the same old, same old - You are all greedy, irresponsible, if only you had saved like me, you should give up work for 5 years ,it wont damage your career(hahahahah) poster and the thread goes tits up.

fideline · 07/03/2014 09:05

Anyone who is SAHMing who thinks it is isn't doing damage her career/pension/lifetime earnings is deluded. I think most SAHMs make the choice despite those factors.

RufusTheReindeer · 07/03/2014 09:11

Agree fideline

And although I have seen plenty of SAHM comments as teamwill has said, I also see plenty of WOHM comments along the lines of giving our children a bad example, being lazy etc

It's really good to see a thread with not much of that going on

AmysTiara · 07/03/2014 09:12

I have 2 close friends. One has 4 children and is a SAHM, the other has 3 children and works full time as a teacher
They are both fantastic parents who do their best for their kids, all the kids are happy and confident regardless of the fact some wdre in nursery from a year old and some never went anywhere except a couple mornings in preschool from age 3

TeamWill · 07/03/2014 09:15

Im sure some SAHM make provision for this and I have overpaid massively for the last 15 years into my pension to make up for the time when I worked less.
I hope that its something our DC will be encouraged to think about .

Writerwannabe83 · 07/03/2014 09:16

Me and my sister were in full time childcare from an early age: parents divorced and both parents worked. We had some good childcare experiences and some not so good. However, we didn't have a very loving relationship with our mom and if I'm honest we'd both have rather been in childcare than at home with her.

Ubik1 · 07/03/2014 09:16

I agree - I was mummy tracked then contract was ended during my first pregnancy. It has been so hard to get back into a decent job, most out there are low paid, contract work or zero hours. The people with decent hours/ permanent contracts are clinging to them so there's not very much movement in the market.

Giving up work is a huge gamble - more so now than 10 years ago.

TeamWill · 07/03/2014 09:17

I dislike the "lazy" comments as much as the "poor children" comments - both designed to light up any thread !

Retropear · 07/03/2014 09:19

Wow Kiwi are you still up- respect!

Kind of an accurate summary Kiwi.I certainly don't think all parents should use a sahp,some wouldn't be suited in the same way some simply aren't suited to leaving their dc.I'm not keen on nurseries(early years degree,worked in several sectors including being a primary teacher) but I'd still like to know more.I'd like a list in order of desirability re childcare.Think there already us one but more research into it.

I firmly believe a parent or close relation is best in most cases.Happy to see research that says otherwise.I'd actually like to see more parents who felt it would benefit their dc helped to have a sahp for a period in a variety of ways.Not talking an eternity but a period like many do.I'd like more research so see if actually it would be worthwhile to work on this as a society. If study after study said no then it wouldn't be so desirable.

I'm not keen on the demonising of sahp by the gov and the media(and MN) the way families are being funnelled into a treadmill lifestyle many don't want.I'd like families to have more choice and flexibility and the powers that be forced to accommodate this.I'd like to debunk the many myths re having a sahp for a period and work done on improving the negatives- if in many cases it was good for children(to quote the op).

At the moment I'm not working but really hope I will again by the end of the year.Will probably use after school club or a childminder.Trying to find out which would be best.

Haven't read all recent posts desperate for a coffee will be back when I have one in hand.

funnyossity · 07/03/2014 09:21

I am pro good childcare with the proviso that there is an ongoing enquiry into what we can do to give all our children the best start.

My example is that when I chose a childminder over a nursery it was because of research into attachment, but I'd be happy to have that research debunked because it will be relevant for any grandchildren let alone all the other kids in the future. I won't weep about it. NB: Of course I realise a childminder might not be the right solution for others and even that others will have horror stories about CMs. No-one lives in an ideal world and we choose the best possible solution for us at the time , this doesn't mean I want to stick my head in the sand.

londonkiwi · 07/03/2014 09:23

Retro, it's only 10.20pm, not that late! Better go to bed soon though. I've never written so much on a MN thread before, feel like it's taken over my life!

londonkiwi · 07/03/2014 09:25

funnyossity pretty much my view too and the same decision (re CM) that we made.

candycoatedwaterdrops · 07/03/2014 09:29

Retro and anyone else -- serious question, do you think the country can actually afford for PAID extended maternity/paternity leave? Where will the money Come from?

funnyossity · 07/03/2014 09:30

But if a nursery with keyworker is the same then I'd be happy to know about it.

Notwithstanding my earlier comment about trusting instincts, those "gut feelings" being are based on experience and knowledge picked up over time. (Of course I could just take umbrage at the comment about it being hard for older people to adjust Grin - just one of the comedy gold moments from earlier in the thread!)

funnyossity · 07/03/2014 09:37

candy the answer is no and as always it will be left to individuals. A bad side - effect of the recent/current economic convulsion has been how it has screwed up the notion of negotiating alternative work arrangements. (I believe the Civil Service career break of years is no more. I know people who had used that, male and female.)