to think that English, Welsh and Northern Irish

[winkywinkola]

people are perfectly entitled to have an opinion on and be interested in the Scottish referendum on their independence?

Seasick sal:

Considering North Sea oil and gas, although on Scottish territory, took an awful lot of investment of English money then I doubt they will be able to walk away with the totality of the profits.

I think you'll find its British money. This attitude is one of the reasons that the referendum is happening...

In my experience Scot Nats get very touchy whenever a non-Scot gives any sort of a view, unless it agrees with them. Saying that a person has a right to an opinion, but noting the opinion is worthless is pretty much the same as saying they have no right to an opinion.

It is one step away from telling them to shut their gob because they don't understand the issues.

My memory of my time in Scotland is the endless comparing and contrasting, pretty much always done to show how much better the Scots were at everything. E.g.:

Scottish education good; English education bad.
Scots - egalitarian; English - class bound.
Scots - friendly; English - stuck up snobs.
Scots law - rational; English law - constipated.
Scots - welcoming to immigrants: English - racists.
Scots - progressive: English - C***s,
Scots pro European and cosmopolitan: English anti-European and insular.
Scots - loved by all over the world: English - hated all over the world.
Scots - invented everything: English - nicked everything
Scots - cultured: English - knuckledragging troglodytes but at the same time..
Scots - frank and robust: English - effete.
Scots - good humoured: English - touchy.
Black pudding and porridge good: bacon bad.
Scots - stick up for the underdog: English - fart on the underdog.
Scots - tell the truth: English - tell polite lies.

In the past, there was also:
Scots sent missionaries to the Empire: the English sent soldiers
Scots: rational Calvinists - English: crypto-Catholics.

And so on.

Now my memory of Scotland is that a great many Scots didn't take this sort of nonsense seriously at all. But a good many did, and if you really have that sort of a conceit about your ethnic culture, it is easy to believe anyone who says you're not getting a fair deal, because the English (or "Westminster" as they are cryptically called now) are such a bunch of subhumans.

It also enables a sort of doublethink, as evidenced by nationalists complaining that Unionists are being inflammatory, while simultaneously bandying about terms like "bullies", "thieves" and "scaremongers".

Should have added that I note the earlier comment expressing surprise at the amount of anti-Scottish sentiment on these threads. It is true that some people say genuinely silly things in discussions like these. However, I suspect it's got more to do with surprise at encountering people who reckon that Scotland's actually been given a preferential deal, and have no time for any tale of eternal victimhood.

I hope Scotland stays in the union, but I am really, really tired of - all my life - hearing Scottish politicians courting Scottish votes by passing the buck south of the border.

My biggest bugbear as an English person living in Scotland is Scottish born English residents sniping over the fact that I have a vote and they don't as they are Scottish and I'm not.

They don't seem to understand that it effects my day to day life in a a way it won't their life. If they want a vote, they should move back here, pay taxes here and contribute to life in Scotland. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

Citizens of rUK have no say in Scotland becoming independent, but will have a huge influence in what the transition is like.

The reminder that rUK can refuse a currency union (just as EU can refuse to bend accession rules for a new country) are both important ones.

As as UK said 'no' to the Euro, I cannot see them forming an external currency union with any other foreign country (as iScotland would be), and also it just seems plain wrong to say you're ending one Union only to demand immediate creation of a new one.

ComposHat

How on earth won't it affect them? It is their home, the place where they grew up. They may have all manner of good reasons for not wanting to move back right away.

Of course the rest of the UK have an opinion, a large chunk of the country choosing to go it alone is a great loss. Or saving and removal of non-Tory voters if you look at it that way.

Well, what most Scot Nats want is to end one union and create another one (iScotland in the EU).

but somehow this is different.

Toad it might affect them in future, but right to vote isn't based on future intentions that might never come to pass. Those in rUK are in a country that will be as foreign as US or Aus, or anywhere if independence comes about and the Scottish government decided not to include any expats in the vote.

"Well, what most Scot Nats want is to end one union and create another one (iScotland in the EU).
"but somehow this is different."

Different to what? iScotland can seek a union with whoever it wants (just seems illogical to seek fresh union with the entity you are choising to end union with). But of course iScotland would have to go through the normal accession procedures, unless it can persuade all existing members otherwise.

We'll have to differ. I am resident in NZ but am still entitled to vote in UK elections, and I exercise that right.

We have no direct link with Scotland other than DH being employed by a Scottish company. We get no say on an issue that.means that potentially he could be employed by a foreign company working through a different currency. That could trigger a massive change for us depending on the company's reaction. But we get no say because we live south of an arbitrary political line.

I suspect the balance of opinion across the rest of the UK is that we are better to stay as a political and economic package.

You are entitled to vote in UK elections because UK has decided that is how it enfranchises expats.

Scotland has made a different decision for this referendum, and may choose to do so for all iScotland elections. UK practice is not binding on iScotland.

toad it isn't their home because they don't live there and in some cases may never set foot in Scotland again. If and when they come back they can vote in future elections to an independent parliament should it come to pass.

It is my home now because I live here and am on the electoral roll and the result of the referendum (which ever way it goes) will massively effect my everyday life.

By your logic I would be be able to votr in Birmingham's mayoral and council elections because I was born there.

lungidancer, and others.

You may have misunderstood the comment that riled you... I'll try and expand what I would have meant if I had asked - what about the English input into the North Sea?

I would have meant what about the % of money that went into North Sea development etc from England, Ireland and Wales? Do we just right it off if Scotland votes yes? Is that fair and equitable or is it Scotland seizing of an asset within its borders?

Consider Russia and Ukraine as you answer that one...

I'm not trying to be incendiary, it's just one of those questions that both sides dance around. They all tend to go very jingoistoc and shouty - as do the shouty jingoistic English and Scottish friends I mentioned earlier

I don't have any answers but I would expect politicians to have an inkling. I mean, you wouldn't buy a house on the information and hard facts either side have come up with!

Lots of people where I work voting no. And I work somewhere where we spend a lot of time talking about the economy. The yes campaign have lots of aspirations but I don't think they are being realistic about how it will all be paid for.