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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think 'bastard' should not be used?

80 replies

hoppingElephant · 01/03/2014 10:38

It is an unpleasant and derogatory term for a person born to unmarried parents. As a 'bastard' myself, and knowing many 'bastard' children I object to the word still being used fairly commonly. You wouldn't use the 'n' word or many other outdated derogatory terms, so why is it still acceptable to use this offensive term, including on MN to describe undesirable things 'bastard neighbours/drivers/insert word'?

Aibu?

OP posts:
scottishmummy · 01/03/2014 13:45

Thanks thinking!i love mrs doubtfire,best liner talking of her husband Winston
Winston's idea of foreplay was Effie,brace yourself I'm going in

thinking101 · 01/03/2014 14:07
Grin
Scholes34 · 01/03/2014 15:52

Bombay - you can come and hear my dad shout "Bastards" at bankers, politicians, anyone else who upsets him on the TV or radio - said in his posh voice, rather than his northern accent.

Language is a living thing and meanings and uses of words change. I hate the word "fuck", but don't think twice about using "bugger".

CromeYellow · 01/03/2014 16:04

It may have meant the child of unmarried parents in the past but it's rarely used as that now. There is no stigma to 'illegitimacy' anymore.

yabu

Motherhen39 · 01/03/2014 16:10

Wondering if this thread started because I used the 'B' word in my Dogs on the sofa post..

If so did not mean to cause offence.. 'Rossi-the Bastard' is our cats full title Grin because he is..

DumSpiroSpero · 01/03/2014 16:20

I think the meaning has changed and I would be loathe to added another word to the politically correct list.

Having said that it is a word I prefer not to use myself, even though I have a potty mouth.

I remember when I was about 10 my dad and I were messing about and he wouldn't stop ticking me, cue me bellowing 'Get off you bastard' in his ear (I think I'd heard it on Dallas the night before and it slipped out - I didn't usually swear at that age and had no idea of it's meaning). I can still remember the look of shock on my dad's face and the gentle but firm lecture I got on why it wasn't a word to use lightly.

Now obviously my dad is of a different generation but that has always stuck with me (am nearly 40 now) and put me off. If I'm honest I do flinch a bit when I hear other people use it, but not enough to want the word banned tbh.

manicinsomniac · 01/03/2014 16:30

Actually, I think you have a point.

I teach some History and the word Bastard occasionally comes up in a historical context on documentaries and youtube clips and so forth (William the Bastard etc). The children always gasp and make a fuss about swear words in the classroom so I then feel I have to stop and explain that there used to be another meaning for the word which was that of a child born to unmarried parents.

Cue lots of confusion about why that is a bad thing and 'ohhh, I'm a bastard' which is really embarrassing and I get terrified of a child going home and saying 'oh mum, Miss X told me I'm a bastard today'!

I can tell them that bastard the swear word and bastard the technical term are homophones till I'm blue in the face but they are intelligent enough to understand that the word wouldn't have become a swear word if it hadn't originally been seen as a bad thing.

manicinsomniac · 01/03/2014 16:31

homonyms not homophones (I also teach English -eek!)

Lweji · 01/03/2014 16:54

And it makes me wonder why and how the meaning has changed.
Were bastards less likely to be well mannered and less educated? Or were they seen as evil with regards to inheritance, or paternal preference?
Or was it just a way of insulting a man's mother, as does SOB?

Curiously, it's more directed at men, whereas women are bitches or whores. Lasting gender stereotypes and biases.

cory · 01/03/2014 17:14

Have you come straight from the 1940's to tell us this?

Words change their meanings and their function. To call somebody silly is no longer a compliment (used to mean "blessed, holy"). These days you can say "mind the lady" and refer to a shopkeeper: that would have been seen as deliberate sarchasm in an earlier period as she is clearly not a lady in the technical sense.

Even the word bastard had different connotations in the 11th century (when it wasn't that big a deal) to the 19th century (when it was seen as hugely shameful).

perplexedpirate · 01/03/2014 17:23

Believe me, some people have definitely NOT forgotten it's original meaning. I've had it levelled at me several times.
I would really like it if I never heard the word again.
Unfortunately it is an excellent swear word, especially in a Northern accent.
Maybe all us bastards should reclaim it?

Lweji · 01/03/2014 18:44

Maybe all us bastards should reclaim it?

Too late.

In the same way that at some point Google tried to prevent it being used as a verb. Grin

Lweji · 01/03/2014 18:44

It there meant google, not bastard.

Yonineedaminute · 01/03/2014 18:48

Op, you have been reading too much Game of Thrones!

As others have said, it has a different meaning now. I like it as a swearword, but i really wish i were northern so i could say it with better force - it sounds a bit shit with a southern accent.

BoneyBackJefferson · 01/03/2014 19:01

Some time ago in Tech we were told not to use the term "bastard" file
it is a first cut file.

I have never called the file (its correct name) a "bastard" file, yet I still have children come in from home saying "dad/mum/granddad said that its real name is a bastard file"

hoppingElephant · 01/03/2014 20:06

Thanks for the replies and I accept that IABU. I do have hang ups about the word as when I was at school children could be bullied for coming from a single parent home, being gay etc. I'm glad if it's all changed now and children no longer suffer for being 'bastards'.

It was not a joke thread.

OP posts:
perplexedpirate · 01/03/2014 22:00

I'd love to live in the world some of you inhabit, where it's meaning has changed.
Please try and have some empathy with those of us who don't.
It's still used as an insult, with incredible venom sometimes. One's parents' marital status shouldn't matter, it should never have mattered, but to some people it does and it's a stick to beat you with.

tethersend · 01/03/2014 22:07

I think George Orwell put it very well:

The whole business of swearing, especially English swearing, is mysterious. Of its very nature swearing is as irrational as magic indeed, it is a species of magic. But there is also a paradox about it, namely this: Our intention in swearing is to shock and wound, which we do by mentioning something that should be kept secretusually something to do with the sexual functions. But the strange thing is that when a word is well established as a swear word, it seems to lose its original meaning; that is, it loses the thing that made it into a swear word. A word becomes an oath because it means a certain thing, and, because it has become an oath, it ceases to mean that thing. For example, 'fuck'. The Londoners do not now use, or very seldom use, this word in its original meaning; it is on their lips from morning till night, but it is a mere expletive and means nothing. Similarly with 'bugger', which is rapidly losing its original sense.

Words used as insults seem to be governed by the same paradox as swear words. A word becomes an insult, one would suppose, because it means something bad; but m practice its insult-value has little to do with its actual meaning. For example, the most bitter insult one can offer to a Londoner is 'bastard'--which, taken for what it means, is hardly an insult at all. And the worst insult to a woman, either in London or Paris, is 'cow'; a name which might even be a compliment, for cows are among the most likeable of animals. Evidently a word is an insult simply because it is meant as an insult, without reference to its dictionary meaning; words, especially swear words, being what public opinion chooses to make them.

In 1933.

Joysmum · 01/03/2014 22:23

Like many words, it has more than one reason. When I use the word 'bastard', I'm not using it to mean the child of I married parents.

FightingOverImaginaryIcecream · 01/03/2014 22:28

By that definition my children are little bastards, I use bastard to describe slugs and other reprehensible life forms, not the DC (even when they're annoying). I don't think it has the same connotations these days.

drnoitall · 01/03/2014 22:32

Bastard.
Always reminds me of the film east is east, the dad calling his children "come here bastard" with his Indian accent. I don't think it's offensive in its original meaning anymore.
If anyone called me a bastard id laugh at the idea of someone trying to cause offence with it.
I am however a bastard, as are my db, ds, dd and ds - we are all bloody brilliant so bring a bastard is nothing to get worked up about.

FudgefaceMcZ · 01/03/2014 22:32

Are you in any way related to Ned Stark? :D

(Surely 'bastard' in the original sense has been reclaimed by now?)

Caitlin17 · 01/03/2014 22:58

I find it offensive, but then I don't call anyone a bastard or a cunt or a prick or a bugger or a wanker. I find all of these words offensive. There are many other words I can use to articulate reasons why I might dislike someone.

brokenhearted55a · 01/03/2014 23:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

phonebox · 01/03/2014 23:18

"Bastard tits" is a fabulous phrase and if anyone takes away my right to say it, I will be annoyed.

I am a bastard myself btw.