To Think That Comprehensive Schools of the 70s and 80s were "Shit" and did nothing for many pupils and where in many cases just as bad as the "Modern" Schools they replaced

[soul2000]

I suffered terribly at my "Middle Class" Comprehensive in the early 1980s and when I was taken out by my parents at the end of 3rd year I could not even hold a pen correctly. I had forgotten even this basic thing, the Secondary school taught my absolutely nothing , and just left me dreading school everyday ( Not through Physical Bullying) I was able to defend myself that way , but through Mental Torture from Staff as well as pupils.

I honestly believe I would have learnt more in a old fashioned "Modern School" The dreaded words, I believe that they would have at least taught me basic Maths/English and I would have been able to show some ability on the sports field.

I know some people will come on and say " I got in to Oxford from My Comprehensive , as did my 10 friends". There must be many people like me though that received an education that was totally inadequate.

They must be some people who believe like me that believe these experiences put them off Education , and made it very difficult to even contemplate returning to any education ( Why Would you go back to something that caused you so much pain and fear)

A long post I know, but was feeling Crap in bed last night and started "Crying" I know its 30 years ago . ( I have Blocked it out for many years) Since I started studying again Open University) I can get fear and trepidation in bed , thinking about education ( although I am doing ok with the O.U)

Mine was beyond crap. A really scary place where pupils brought knives to school and beat up the top set "snobs"
Several teachers were openly having relationships with the pupils. I still have a scar from when a teacher hit me with some rubber tubing in a science lab.

Now it is one of the most sought after schools in the country.
After I left one of the pupils in my year set light to it.

OP, sorry you had such a horrible experience.

I think there were schools in the 70s and 80s that were like nothing that would be allowed to exist now. DP went to a school in s London that was so notorious that it was razed to the ground. Hackney Downs was another.

There seemed to be no policies of any kind, teachers in the pub at lunch time, violence, terrible routine vandalism, staff regularly assaulted by kids, no curriculum, children getting caned in a fairly random way and often very cruel, (70s).

I don't for one moment suggests that every comp, or every school of any other type either, is a good or successful school, or that every pupil now leaves fulfilled and challenged. But I think that the NC has ensured that there is a level of education against which schools can be measured (even if I don't agree about many aspects of the nc), far more awareness of all aspects of safeguarding, more awareness, willingness and ability to tackle bullying (not always successful, but in many schools in the bad old days it was just deemed natural and teachers didn't even consider any intervention).

I definitely think that overall behaviour and discipline has improved. I go into schools that are considered 'over my dead body' territory by mc parents and actually the classrooms are quiet, the corridors are civilised and the majority of young people polite and interested.

I used to go into schools in E London in the 80s, I go into schools in S London now: overall, no comparison. Not all rosy and faultless, but none of the no-go areas that used it exist.

In terms if discipline, bullying, imaginative teaching, extra curricular , SEN provision my Ds's comp is better than the 70s selective private / state scholarship school I went to.

Glad you have managed to claim the education that should have been yrs when you were younger, OP .

OP; My DBs had their heads flushed down the loo in their first week in their secondary modern school (pre comprehensive).
My grammer school was hopeless. Half the pupils failed all their GCEs.

Look forward, rather than back.

You have taken control of your education by doing OU, which is admirable.

I hope you feel better soon.

Reading this it does sound like (in general) school have improved a lot in a generation, at least for the middle to low income families. Wouldn't it have been an absolute scandal if exam grades hadn't gone up?

I was lucky in the fact, I came from a "wealthy" family so my problems when I left school were masked. I was able to go in to vocational education via Btec's , City And Guilds. I went on to own 4 Pubs and A Nightclub ( I am no Shrinking Violet) I don't get upset lightly, so it shows your school days , whether good, bad or indifferent , will always stay in your mind.

What upsets me though ( What happened to People like me , who did not have my fortune , of having "Wealthy Parents") Many people would have left school unable to read or write to an acceptable level, despite being bright people ( Who with the right "Help" had the Academic potential for Higher level Qualifications) leaving school as failures and branded in the 1970, 1980s .

Today many of these people, who at the time were deemed "Thick" based on whether they did not understand one " Simple Concept", go on to Universities. These people are able to show their intelligence , and in many cases "High Academic ability".

My Niece/Nephew do not understand , my Gcse results 4Es and 1 D , to them it seems not "Possible" how I could have such poor results ?

Ultimately my previous education has not ruined my love (For Many it did)
It still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and upset sometimes.

YABU I really can't understand the connection between secondary school & holding a pen correctly.

RedHelen
RTFT the OP explains the connection quite clearly

I'm sorry, no comp of ANY era would make you forget how to use a pen!!!

RedHelen
The OP is talking about how the school failed to pick up on her SEN. In this case dyspraxia.

But presumably, so did her primary school? And is she certain that a secondary modern would? The whole special needs thing is a recent development for needs that weren't glaringly obvious so nothing to do with comps vs grammars so in that respect her post is unreasonable.

That is only one aspect of her post and as you see from all the other posts her experience of a bad comprehensive is not unique. Having being in a comp where things were thrown at teachers and by teachers, I can sympathise with her experience.

For all the talk of falling standards, I can remember some shockers from my school days - and I lived in an affluent area and went to private/selective schools.

Does anyone remember ITA (initial teaching alphabet)? Lots of children in a school I arrived at aged 7 came from a local school that "taught" ITA, with the result that children entering Y3 could not read or write. The daughter of family friends failed her 11+, went to a horrible sink comprehensive after a lovely private prep and left school with no qualifications aged 16. I went (briefly) to a grammar school where the "less academic" girls were routinely taught Home Economics and Sewing before leaving at 16 to become shop assistants.

I completely agree that a number of schools in the 1970s and 1980s were shockers.

And quite a number weren't. I am not the only person who did in fact get a pretty good education. And when I did get to Oxford I certainly wasn't phased by my privately educated peers. Anything but, frankly.

soul It does sound like you were badly let down by your schools and I can fully understand why you feel bitter about your experiences.

However, having read all of the thread, I am dubious about your belief that you might have been better served by what you term an old-fashioned school or your singling out of the 70s and 80s. Whilst I agree that in many ways the schools of that era left much to be desired, I suspect that with your particular problem you might well have fared just as badly if not even worse in earlier decades.

I doubt whether many ordinary schools and teachers had heard of dyspraxia back in the 70s. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if dyslexia was unknown to many. When I was doing work experience in the early 80s I remember a colleague saying that when he and his sister were at school in the 1960s she was branded "thick" and dumped in the special department and it was only in later years that she was diagnosed as dyslexic.

The School did not give me any one to one help ( Apart from the Non qualified do gooder) of any kind. I remember I broke a Pen , because I pressed so hard and the Nib just snapped. The worst thing about the school though, was that even in 1983 the school had a specialist Unit for Severe Learning difficulties yet, could not spot my Problems. Although I had a Couple of Friends ( Loose) the school never asked or investigated why most break times I was alone, and why I never sat next to anyone at lunch.

The school were not interested or did not know anything about me. If the school had bothered to ask or look in to my "Skills" they would have found out that I was a County Standard Hockey Player , and that at 16 ( Had left that school by then) I went to the National Schools Athletics Championships , and finished 5th at the 200 Metres. They never looked at what other skills or abilities I had ( I never Played Hockey for that School) Sports Day I just walked round In the 800 Metres ? ( They Only entered me for that , because they was no one else ) 200/ 800 Don't go together.

The School had zero pastoral support for anyone other than the 10-12 Students who were University bound ( A fantastic 2-3 would go to Oxbridge each year) Not exactly Pates was it.

I know schools have improved 100 times, my Niece/Nephew have had great educations ( Grammar). That debate is debated once a fortnight. The debate though is how many people had their lives destroyed by terrible schooling. The other question to ask, would many of those deemed thick 30 years ago , have got to University today and ultimately in to rewarding careers.

I did ok at school but I was academic. I think I could have done a lot better though if the school had had any knowledge of careers and any ambition. It would also have helped if they had thought careers were important for girls too, almost all the girls in my year went into childcare or hairdressing, not that there is anything wrong with those careers but there was no encouragement to think of other stuff.

Somebody mentioned upthread about their school's inability to give any polish or confidence and I agree; I was stunned when I went to university and met students whose education had been broader and who knew even a bit about current affairs, music, art, etc rather than just enough of their subjects to pass the exams

morry Can I ask which pit town comp in staffs you went to? I have a feeling I went to the same one. Albeit a decade later.

soul In the 80s dyspraxia wasn't really recognised in any schools, I think it was a case of blanket ignorance and you'd have suffered whether you'd have attended a grammar school or secondary modern.

The idea of a secondary modern depresses me hugely. Kids condemned to a life on the scrapheap at 11 and condemned to the most poorly paid, unskilled jobs (if they were lucky). It is interesting when people howl to bring back grammar schools, they very rarely clamour for the accompanying secondary modern that go with them. If their kids failed, I imagine they'd soon change their tune.

Yes Blu I think that is a fair point, the falling behavioural standards in schools is probably a load of bollocks. From what my Uncle said, in his secondary modern when teachers were foolhardy enough to attempt to cane 4th or 5th year students (brawny lads largely destined for the pit) it would often end in a stand up fight between the teacher and student.

My comprehensive was very good, my primary school on the otherhand....

One noticeable teacher who we had for a whole year, wrote up on the blackboard the work you had to do for the day. These were basically exercises out of various books. The last instruction was always if you had finished all that, to read a book from the classroom library. She then sat and read her newspaper the whole day.

I remember being shocked when she said quite openly that she didn't mind one boy in the class doing any work, as he was quiet and didn't disturb anyone.

Blu. "Wolstanton" and the local "High School"

I went to a comp which was an ex-grammar. The school divided the students into 4 streams, and the classes were not encouraged to mix with each other. Only the top class was entered for O'levels or later higher tier GCSE, even though many students in the middle sets would have been capable. I was fortunate to be in the top set, but know that friends in other sets were not encouraged academically. The school was sought after because for the top 25% a grammar school style education was available. The school is still sought after and still rigidly streams. But now most children are taught to a higher tier and it gets 80% A*-C.

The boys grammar that converted fared considerably worse. They immediately converted to progressive education, child centred learning and soft discipline, because they felt this was most appropriate for less able students. Standards dropped like a stone, high ability students failed and their siblings were sent elsewhere. I think it was getting about 15% A-C in the late 1990's (I know grades have generally increased since then, but that was very poor). After a few years it became the school of last resort and is now an academy.

Alas Morray we were at the other end of the county on the s.staffs coalfield.

Compast. My (Sisters 12 years younger than me) education could not have been more different than mine. Dad left the Mining industry in 1981 and started buying houses, ( Made a "Load" of Money) ,Sent Dsis to Prep School and then to "Wycombe Abbey" and on to a Career teaching in "Private" Schools ( I Am not Bitter at all ! ).

My parents told me that "Circumstances change" and that I have to accept that. The same Dad ( Who would not employ me when he was A Negotiator for the N.U.M) " I don't employ people with no qualifications"
Mum "What are you going to do now then " after walking out of school.

Dad fell out with me , because I refused to go to "Night School" and my choice of DH ( who was a according to my dad a "loony leftie" Science Professor. ( My Dad had gone from Rabid Leftie to Right Wing Nutter).

My Dad was angry with me for not sending DD2 Private ( He was going to pay) but did not due to DH Idealogical beliefs ( Hatred of Private and Selective schools) . Dad's feelings to him were not helped when he temporally walked out last year " Breakdown" leaving me , a newly made Redundant Single Mother and relying on Mum And Dad to pay the Mortgage.

DD2 and Dad are Very very Close, When DD told her about being accepted to a Grammar School's Sixth Form " Its about Blo* Time you used your Brain the right way. I think he sees himself in her.

Morry. You really should have gone against your DH, and sent DD 2 Private.
If I remember , your DDs Senco comes from a Selective Independent Background Doesn't She ?

I would not blame you for feeling bitter when your Sister had such a Brilliant education and your suffered the worst a ( 1970s Comprehensive Education).

For those Who said a Secondary Modern Would not have been better for me , well it could not have been worse. The first thing they would have done would have at least let me show my Athletic Ability and hopeful would have taught me basics and reasonable Maths and Literacy standards.

I was at a comprehensive in the '80s, which changed from secondary modern/grammar when I was at junior school.

I think it was a great school. Those of us who were capable got pushed enough, and were supported if they thought we were capable of going for Oxbridge. But there were a quite a few who stayed on into the 6th form who weren't doing A-levels, but extra literacy and numeracy and so on - so different needs were catered for. It wasn't perfect, but given they had hundreds of pupils with a massive range of abilities and needs, I think they got it right for the majority of us.

Some comprehensives were crap; not all were.