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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

friend may go to prison for benefit fraud. AIBU to think its unfair her partner will get off scot free?

438 replies

balenciaga · 27/02/2014 11:08

there is a back story here, which i will try and keep brief. my good friend has been with a guy on and off for 4 years, he was amazing at first and promised the earth as they do, then he became very abusive (mentally, physically and financially) and she was frightened of him. He even left her twice for 2 different women but she took him back. However, 2 months ago she finally left him (thank god) and moved back home to her mums and is starting again, looking for a house, a job etc.

she has 4 dcs and turns out she was claiming as a single parent the whole time he was with her :( I am not making excuses for her but she was scared to stop claiming as he would not contribute financially and she was scared of not being able to pay bills, eat etc. Also, he pressured her into keeping claiming (which I can WELL believe) and assured her it would be fine, no one would know etc Hmm - basically so he could carry on spending his wages like water living rent free and doing whatever the fuck he pleased.

she only told me a few weeks ago what had happened. while she was still with her ex, she had been called in for an interview with the fraud team at DWP as they had suspicions and she confessed it all to them. I couldn't believe she had done it TBH but as much as I absolutely do not condone what she's done I can kind of understand her reasons, its not black and white, yes I did think why the hell did you not leave him earlier etc but its not that easy is it :(

her court date was yesterday. because of the length of time she kept the fraud up for and the amount of money involved (over 33k and that's just HB and income support - ie before tax credits even Shock ) the judge pretty much decided as soon as she went in that the case would go straight to Crown. Her solicitor has warned her that a prison sentence is a real possibility :(

AIBU to think this could be quite a common reason for women committing benefit fraud? and that the law seriously needs looking at and these cocklodging bastards of an ex should also be made accountable?? it takes two ffs !!

OP posts:
lottieandmia · 27/02/2014 18:45

Oh I agree fideline but if you will the person to contribute financially when they move in you have to be ultra careful that you can trust them 100% or as near as.

TetrisBlock · 27/02/2014 18:45

What I was saying above was that as she is solely responsible for four children and on a low income she probably wouldn't be able to afford the childcare costs necessary to work more hours so I can understand the need to claim benefits from her perspective. If the children's father had taken on equal responsibility for them then she could work unencumbered by fees on the days he has them etc.

RedToothBrush · 27/02/2014 18:45

If he couldn't be relied on instead of benefits, there's your reason not to let him back in the house.

Women HAVE to take some level of responsibility. Claiming benefits is an exchange for the state taking responsibility for you and your family so you don't have to do it alone.

If you are unable to support your family alone, you do have to make an active decision between finding someone to help support you and your family or the state doing that job.

That does not mean you can't have a relationship. It means you can't have the freedom of a relationship if you were single without children. It means you have consider the financial implications and level of commitment from your partner and whether they represent the level of stability a family needs or not. Benefits are not without strings or responsibility when you claim them.

Allowing someone to move in when they have demonstrated multiple times that they don't represent enough stability to sign off, is neglecting your responsibility to both your children and the state.

Especially in circumstances where the man is not the children's father.

As difficult as circumstance may be, there has to be a point, where a woman is deemed responsible for her actions. Over the course of four years I think you would have to conclude that at some point, she must have crossed that line.

WooWooOwl · 27/02/2014 18:45

Mintyy, he wasn't the one whose name was on the claim form. He wasn't the one who had sole responsibility of four children.

He might have spent some time staying in the house because his girlfriend lived there, but of all the money claimed went on feeding the children and paying the rent and bills, then I can't really see how you come to the conclusion that he was sharing in the proceeds of this fraud.

Many boyfriends and girlfriends spend a lot of time at their girlfriend or boyfriends house, that is not a crime and the law does not need to be changed to make it so.

handcream · 27/02/2014 18:47

So - now her previous relationship was a crap decision as well.

She 'found' herself with 4 kids - really? Has she heard about birth control. She chose the father of her children. No one else.

And she chose badly again and chose to commit benefit fraud.

And for those of you who say how can she afford childcare - well she cant! I couldnt and so stopped at 2.

Rommell · 27/02/2014 18:48

Thanks for the comments, folks. Nice to know there are some reasonable people on this thread. And before you go thinking that I'm some lentil-knitting liberal who believes every line spun at me, the reason that I know how most fraud of this type builds up is what I gleaned from looking at the paper trail of evidence that we used. At first when I started I thought "Bloody hell, frauding for 12 years, that's appalling" but when I started digging through the evidence and seeing the narrative that these paper drew, I quite quickly changed my mind.

Anonymai · 27/02/2014 18:49

She 'found' herself with 4 kids - really? Has she heard about birth control. She chose the father of her children. No one else.

And she chose badly again and chose to commit benefit fraud.

What is it with these cunty comments from people lately about choosing the fathers of children? Not all men show their twattish behaviour from the off.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 27/02/2014 18:50

It's not fair that he is not punished too: but as everyone says he didn't commit the offence. Praps they should make an offence of 'assisting fraud' but presumably everyone would deny that they knew it was going on.

HappyMummyOfOne · 27/02/2014 18:51

Anonymai, women on benefits tend to state they are either on them as they want to stay home not working or work the magic sixteen hours to gain maximum benefits.

Either male or female, they should be working to their full capacity not letting others pick up the tab for the choices they made.

No dreaded ex, why would there be? I just simply believe that too many chose to live on benefits and that it is wrong. If you choose to have children then you should be prepared to financially support them. Relationships do go wrong and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out if you have numerous children that should things go pear shaped you dont have the means to support them so need to plan so that you can.

lottieandmia · 27/02/2014 18:51

HappyMum - it's a nonsense to say that two parents are always equal in all matters. Usually one parent has to do nearly all the parenting. And it's often the woman. The other parent has their days free to work whatever hours they can.

handcream · 27/02/2014 18:52

So, choosing a crap man should be someone else's issue? Who forced her to choose these no marks?? The latest kept leaving her so clearly he did show his true colours. She chose to take him back again and again but didnt think to stop the benefit fraud.

Anonymai · 27/02/2014 18:53

Anonymai, women on benefits tend to state they are either on them as they want to stay home not working or work the magic sixteen hours to gain maximum benefits.

What a load of bollocks Grin

That alone negates anything you said after that.

BusinessUnusual · 27/02/2014 18:53

Good posts, Rommell.

ilikebigbutts · 27/02/2014 18:53

Rommell - have a word with handcream will you please for Christ's sake....maybe you can make her see reason too...

handcream - I assume you are one of these amazing individuals I meet every so often in life who has never, ever made a wrong decision. Every day must be a constant fucking disappointment for you being surrounded by us mere mortals....

BusinessUnusual · 27/02/2014 18:54

Surely the absent father who pays £5 from his benefits or whatever should also have got some more work so he could contribute more?

handcream · 27/02/2014 18:55

Ususally one parent has to do nearly all the parenting...

Really - not in our house!

I agree with Hapy Mummy - if you have 4 kids you really arent going to be able to afford childcare for all of them. You surely have to take responsibility for your decision to have them (or is someone going to come along) and say 'she found herself with 4 kids' - wait I think someone did!

Anonymai · 27/02/2014 18:55

So, choosing a crap man should be someone else's issue? Who forced her to choose these no marks??

Never mind blaming the man for being a shit. Let's all blame the woman for choosing them. They will of course told her how awful they are from the very beginning and won't have hidden it and pretended to be nice.

WooWooOwl · 27/02/2014 18:55

I can completely understand the point Rommell makes about people stumbling into circumstances where they end up committing fraud because they picked up a little bit of work in the hope that it will lead to better things and then it doesn't.

But I really cannot understand how you just fall into circumstances where you allow someone to move into the home you share with four children.

I've been a single parent, I've done the years of barely ever seeing a guy I was crazy about because it wouldn't have been right to have him around my children until I was certain that the relationship was going to last. I know it's hard, but the fact is that when you have children you have to put their needs for financial and emotional security before your own desire to see your boyfriend and have some company of an evening.

You don't just fall into letting a man move in with you, it's a big decision that requires a lot of planning and preparation when there are children involved.

If you can't be arsed to make that decision properly, then you deserve to face the consequences. Unfortunately the children involved don't deserve it, but the only people to blame for that are their parents.

Jess03 · 27/02/2014 18:56

I do feel sorry for the op, mostly that she let an abusive sod ruin her life. It does seem hard that benefits get cut without any proof that a partner is actually contributing financially - this is the source of the problem. Of course women should exercise better judgment in partners but often they are lonely and isolated and then end up in a nightmare as has happened here.

lottieandmia · 27/02/2014 18:56

I mean if the parents are separated handcream...

handcream · 27/02/2014 18:56

I have made loads of odd decisions. But I take the consequences of them. I dont try and blame others or keep making the same decisions again and again.

handcream · 27/02/2014 18:58

She was with him for 4 years. He left her time and time again. Yet she chose to stay with him. She had plenty of warning of what he was like. She just chose to ignore them for 4 years!!

HappyMummyOfOne · 27/02/2014 18:59

Its never the womens fault Hmm I was under the impression she had chosen to have four children with no means to support them, had chosen the partners and had signed the benfit forms herself. Silly me.

Given their are four children, most must be in school surely unless she moved the new man in with weeks of splitting with one man. Therefore if she actually wanted to come off the benefits she could likely have done. With four children, the household income would have to be very very high to not get any help with childcare costs.

ilikebigbutts · 27/02/2014 19:00

Well good for you handcream. I sincerely mean that.

Unfortunately for some people, whether due to an abusive upbringing, poor self-esteem or any number of other emotional issues (none of which we know is going on with the OP's friend) assuming responsibility and stopping negative patterns of behaviour can be a bit more difficult. Glad to hear you're able to pick yourself up and dust yourself down when the shit has hit the fan.

BackOnlyBriefly · 27/02/2014 19:01

Relationships do go wrong and it doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out if you have numerous children that should things go pear shaped you dont have the means to support them so need to plan so that you can.

Ah yes. Well I think every time someone gets pregnant they should instruct their accountant to move say 200k into an account for when something goes wrong. It's just common sense isn't it and if everyone did that we wouldn't need child benefits.

Oh hang on though. I think I've spotted the flaw in that...