To think that people just don't get supply and demand

[bottlenecker]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26093691

If airports are currently running at capacity then how can lowering taxes on flights help people get a cheaper holiday.

If families are currently willing to pay current high prices for holidays, then reducing taxes will surely lead to holiday companies being able to hike prices even further because people do seem to be able to afford them at the current rate.

Why do people not seem to understand the basics of supply and demand. If people couldn't afford the current costs of holidays to fill seats on the planes then holiday companies would have to put their prices down. They are full though

In this circumstance, I guess the teacher would have to find childcare during half-term. Much like many of us do.

The issue being mentioned here was, if eg two children were at different schools in neighbouring counties (very likely where we are) and a parent teaches in another-they may never be able to have a holiday together.

I would like to take dcs to DP's home country so they can see the country as well as meeting family. Probably not going to happen.

Ah, my bad rollonthesummer.

That's a fair complaint.

It's a hell of a long time to miss every weekday wedding or funeral of someone who is not deemed close enough.

Why can't you go to a funeral mid week? Your children don't need to go do they? Could you not ask another parent to help out while you went?

Daykin

How come your DP can't take holiday during kids holidays?

Why can't you go to a funeral mid week? Your children don't need to go do they? Could you not ask another parent to help out while you went?

Depends where it is, doesn't it? And what time the funeral is. Last funeral I went to was 9.30 am. As it happens it was local but what if it was 300 miles away and what if the kids wanted to go the the funeral of someone they loved? These rules aren't just for little kids, they are for people who are old enough to have relationships with people who die and benefit from mourning rituals. Teenagers shouldn't have to go cap in hand begging to attend funerals and justifying their relationship with the deceased. I can't believe that even needs to be said.

I think "cap in hand" is possibly an exaggeration. Surely you tell the school about a funeral and they either excuse it or don't?

How come your DP can't take holiday during kids holidays?

He works in the tourist industry. He can have the odd day i.e. weekdays during Feb and Oct half terms excluding Halloween and Valentines day and the day before Halloween and Valentines day but not enough time to actually go anywhere. He's always off Xmas day and Boxing day, which is nice (I'm not- nhs) but again, not long enough for an actual holiday. He can always get time off in Jan but kids can't, obviously. Even 'normal' jobs don't guarantee both parents the same leave during school holiday time. I've seen people come to blows over summer holiday leave.

bottlenecker. I run my own business and employ staff. neither they nor we can take time off in school holidays due to the nature of that business. it is not that specialist but if I told you what it was it would out me which I am not prepared to do so you will just have to take it on trust. at the moment we holiday separately during school hols. I take the kids for a week away and DH does the same. if we want to all go together as a family it has to be in term time. up until this year all the schools accepted this. we selected the dates in consultation with them. we took whatever week they offered not to go abroad necessarily but to holiday together. we made sure work missed was scanned and e mailed to my DC's for them to read and paste in books before returning to school. we completely minimised disruption because we felt we were in a partnership for our childs education. there are loads of jobs where parents have to work either set shifts or set weeks or only in school holidays or mainly then. school refurbs only take place during school hols that sort of thing.

I don't see how holiday prices could be regulated, given that it's a global market.

And zoning would be awful, if you were a family who lived near a zone border and your nearest primary was in one and secondary in another. Then you couldn't have holidays outside the overlap eg right in the middle of the longer breaks. It already hits sometimes if you live near a county boundary, as sometimes the holidays are different. This would mean they always would be. And I don't think the (already complicated) school admission criteria could take further stipulations to prioritise same zone.

crowler. you have to request the time in writing. if you are refused this is marked down as unauthorised. depending on where you live you will be fined. some don't fine for the first 5 days but lots of LEA's and some schools say one day = one fine. but the fine isn't the issue. it is an offence, same as drink driving.

"I think "cap in hand" is possibly an exaggeration. Surely you tell the school about a funeral and they either excuse it or don't?"

So what if they don't? How many jobs do you know where people aren't allowed to switch shifts or take a days unpaid leave to do something important like attend a funeral? It's absolutely incomprehensible that a working person would be charged, or even have the threat of a fine of £120, by the state for trying to do it. I'm not actually in favour of every family swanning off for a fortnight every year but the lack of flexibility that leads to comments like 'you can go to funerals, get another parent to look after the kids' shows how rigid the system is becoming. I lost 2 close friends as a teenager. Sending my mum to the funerals while someone else's mum cooked my tea wouldn't have been even slightly useful. Life happens to people. People die and get married and get pipped to the post when they are putting their holiday requests in. Given the numbers of people who have children in school the system demands some flexibility.

the problem is Daykin that there is this one size fits all view about it. just saying to the heads that they have discretion doesn't work if you then say "ah but if you use that discretion and grant days off as holiday the LEA and Ofsted are going to come down on you about it"

I think if they refuse to authorise leave for a child to go to grandparents funeral you take them , I just can not believe that a court would actually fine you for taking any child to a grandparents funeral, I could believe a silly LEA might try and frighten parents into paying a fine, most workplaces give a few days compassionate leave for a death of a parent and at least the day of funeral for a grandparent why would a school be less compassionate

DD is 4 her grandparents are 90, 89 and 67 I would take her to their funerals whatever school said due to where we live it would be at least 2 days off school, it is my call not schools call whether she should or should not attend a funeral

i do not think this is remotely the same as taking 2 weeks holiday

The court has no option but to convict you if you have taken your child out of school with authorisation and have refused to pay any fine that is later imposed.

They do have discretion over the punishment they can impose and you would hope that they would be lenient in the event of a funeral.

But it seems like a terrible thing to have to go through when you are bereaved.

thanks Mrscakes. this is the problem. a lot of people think the head teacher, the LEA and the courts are all going to be reasonable. but they are not. there is no right of appeal to this.

Is there any evidence that a child would be refused leave for a close grandparents funeral? Or is that what exceptional circumstances is all about?

I have seen examples on MN of children being denied leave to to go family funerals, worse they have been denied leave to visit a dying relative to say goodbye. HTs have the power to decide if your relationship is close enough and special enough to warrant time off school. If they think that a stepgrandfather isn't as important as a real grandfather - well that's the end of the discussion.

I haven't heard of anyone ending up in court over it - but that may be because they chose to pay the fine rather than go through a court case with the costs and stress that involves.

I would have thought the law would cover compassionate leave if a close relative died anyhow.

I thought though, that in the law of supply and demand, as demand grew, supply grew to meet it and therefore it became more of a buyers market and prices fell.

Bitoutofpractice

You are right, but it depends whether new entrants can saturate the market. Flights slots are sort of finite so difficult for supply to out strip demand.

I have seen no reference to children being entitled to compassionate leave. Adult workers have a right to "reasonable" time off in the event of a family emergency - often 1 or 2 days to arrange and attend a funeral - but there is no entitlement to time of while grieving.

Of course they can go to a funeral- that is covered by exceptional circumstances.
I had a child at school for 23 years - you manage.
It is supply and demand. If I had a holiday cottage I could fix a rent advantageous to me in peak holiday times, I would need to reduce it in January, February and times when not many people wanted it.
I hate the idea of staggered holidays, those who live near county borders, with children in different counties or who have children in one and teach in another would never get away together!

I am just punching the air that I remembered a bit of exonomics that my dad used to drone on chat about when I was a teenager

I would really like a HT to come on here to clarify whether a close family members funeral would be allowed. I cannot believe it wouldn't be.