To not want to share with DH

[Shorty1980]

I found out, by accident, that DH is borrowing £400 a month from fucking Wonga just to stay afloat. He also has an additional £5k of debt he didn't tell me about, because he knew I would "nag" him. He doesn't gamble, drink or spend large amounts on anything in particular, but he still thinks he is entitled to the same lifestyle that he sees his friends and family enjoying. He is yet to have his lightbulb moment.

Our finances are separate because it made sense as he was in a huge amount of debt when we got together - I was able to get a mortgage on my own because we are not connected.

I have just taken on a third job, and was looking forward to having a bit of extra money - I thought we might take the kids to Eurodisney, maybe sort out a few things that need doing around the house. It now looks like my entire wage is going to get lost in the black hole that is DH's debt. AIBU to tell him to sort it himself? In fact I know IABU and that it isn't my money, it's our family money, but I just despair that it is throwing good money after bad and it's not going to change his attitude to money so we will end up in the same bloody situation again in 5 years. I do love him, and every bone in my body wants to make it right, but is that the most helpful thing to do, would I be better to let him hit rock bottom???

No advice hun and tbh yanbu imo

Hope you find a way cos wonga is noway yo finance life

My DH has got a loan that costs him £280 a month. He pays it out of his personal account, certainly not the joint account. If I had loans/debts I would be responsible for paying them myself and I would never expect my DH to have to pay them off for me. We should all be responsible for the life choices we make.

If your husband seemed genuinely remorseful and completely up the Creek to the point where he was struggling financially and emotionally then I think I would step in - but it doesn't sound like he is. It sounds like he is quite happy to continue as he is without much regard for it's knock on effects. He doesn't seem too concerned about the 'family money' concept and is being selfish, so why should you fret over the fairness of it when he doesn't?

You imply that even if you did pay off all his debts he would continue with his lifestyle and would no doubt end up in debt all over again - so what's the point??

If your finances are kept separate then there is no reason why your extra income would be swallowed up in his debt unless you started handing money over to him. How are your finances normally managed when it comes to paying for holidays? Do you split 50/50 or do you have a joint account for this sort of thing? If you split 50/50 and he can't afford his half of the Euro Disney trip then just leave him behind

He needs to realise the consequences of his actions and lifestyle choices!!

Can you take complete control of all finances? I know it's not ideal nor should it be necessary but you are taking a 3rd job whilst he spends money you don't have. How many jobs does he have?

In all honesty if he wouldn't relinquish control to you I'd be looking at extricating myself from the marriage.

How much do you earn relative to each other and how do you share household costs?

For example, if you earn a lot more than him but you share essential costs 50/50 YABU as you should both end up with more or less equal 'spends' each.

However, if he is just pissing his earnings up the wall on non essentials such as food/drink out when he could take food from home, expensive mobile phone contracts, golf or other hobbies or clothes or gadgets then obviously YANBU and there are two solutions to this:

1. You take control of all household finances. Work out how much you need to spend on essentials, DCs things, savings and things like holidays or other luxuries and then split what is genuinley left over 50/50 and when it is gone, it is gone - DH shouldn't have access to any other money as it would seem that he is completely hopeless with it.

1. LTB/throw him out.

Is it worth getting a third party to talk to him? It sounds like he's "insulated" himself from what you say (by dismissing your concerns as nagging).

If he's going to Wonga for daily expenses, then he is either completely incapable of basic arithmetic, or deep deep deep in denial. And at Wonga rates, it won't take 5 years to be back in this situation and worse - he will rapidly outstrip your ability to pay off his debts.

There's a difference between family money, and enabling self-destructive behaviour.

What's the actual earnings/sharing bills situation?

Thanks for all the advice - and for not making me feel like a complete bitch! I'm just going into a meeting about my new job but I will post more about how our finances breakdown on my lunch break.

Trouble is, whether you like it or not, the fact that you are married means you are legally a partnership.

YANBU

Not even a little bit.

By taking out secret debts and overspending he has broken any notion of "family money".

You guys don't share family money, because he can't be trusted not to take far more than his share and get you all into financial difficulties.

That's kind of like stealing.

I think you would be out of your mind to spend money you have worked hard for and saved for your children on an irresponsible and unrepentant spendthrift.

Why the fuck should your kids miss out on a trip to Eurodisney because their Dad likes playing the Big Man?

I would ring the charity, National Debtline, and establish the situation for you if he goes bankrupt. As you are married you need to know this. You need to know what, if anything, you can do to avoid losing your home and your own savings if that happens. I would suggest that is your first priority and the information you get will shape how you deal with him and his debt.

In your position I would be seeking legal advice to make sure this dishonest, financially incontinent prick couldn't take the rest of us down.

I would want complete financial separation and if I needed to divorce him to get it, then that's what I'd do.

Forgot to ask, what does he spend his money on apart from Wonga interest and charges.

You say that 'He doesn't gamble, drink or spend large amounts on anything in particular', yet he is using payday loans and is in massive debt. Does he pay into the household pot? Has his debt increased or decreased since you go together?

If you plan to sort it out with him, you need to know the full picture about what he earns, owes and spends as otherwise, any action taken might not be the right solution.

With serious debt, one problem is that often any money paid back is eaten up with interest and charges and you can be paying hundreds a month in debt repayments and not get anywhere .

So I said I would come back with our finances breakdown...

Up until Jan he was earning twice as much as me (I was only working p/t) - all the bills are in my name, so every month he pays an amount equivalent to 2/3rds of the bills plus £100 for joint savings. I pay the remaining 1/3rd and £100 into savings. Food shopping whoever goes pays, he tends to do the 'big shop' and I do several smaller milk/bread runs. We didn't have any childcare costs at this point. I manage holidays, birthdays etc from savings.

In Jan I took on a new job. I pay for the childcare costs out of that wage which leaves me £50 extra a week. We haven't really adjusted the bills amounts to take account of that, tbh, because I get paid a month behind and had to pay jan/feb childcare upfront so I've not actually earnt anything yet.

New (3rd) job will mean an extra £800 a month after childcare - and of course I was going to recalculate percentage of bills accordingly!

As to where does the money go, I did a full breakdown with him and after debt and bills he has £120 a month. His portion of the food shopping comes to £200 so I can see how he has got into trouble. What I don't understand is why put £100 in savings at 0.0000001% then borrow from Wonga at 8000% every month!

To posters asking where the money goes, he had a massive, unexpected bill last year which to be fair we couldn't have predicted and wasn't his fault. However, he got a friend of a friend in to do the work, never actually asked how much it was going to cost, and when I did finally 'nag' him to pin this guy down a cost, and it was more than we could afford, refused to get other quotes because it was 'embarrassing' because the acquaintance had already started. The 5k he didn't tell me about was the amount over budget this job went.

Yanbu for not wanting to bail him out.
Maybe once you recalculate what you're both putting in he might be a bit better off so that he can manage until the end of the month.
First he must get rid of wonga asap.

It also depends what this unexpected bill was for as to whether I helped him repay or not - if it was to benefit the family then yes I would. If it was to benefit only him then no I wouldn't.

I agree with others - would it better for you to deal with the finances for a while. It's not a pretty scenario but if he has no say (first he obviously has to agree) it may be easier to sort out in the shortest time possible.

I'd be sitting him down and telling him he needs to start behaving like grown man - fuck what lifestyle his mates have, fuck what lifestyle he would like to have. Facts are facts and the reality is he can't do this, it's affecting his family.

Good luck.

Thanks for the update - things to consider:

Was the £5k something that should have been shared, or was it your DHs expense?

How many hours do you work each - are you working a lot more than him for your 3 jobs?

How much do you have in savings if you have been saving £200 pm? How much do you spend on food per month? A weekly big shop plus several top up shops could add up to more than you think.

Do you think between you there is enough income to pay all your basic bills and food etc?

If your DH has unmanagable debt to the extent that he needs a formal solution, he would be expected to pay his fair share of household bills and use what is left to pay his debts, not paying his debts first, and then not having enough money for food, which is what he is doing now.

So he has £520 after bills & debt including his wonga money? That's loads. What on earth is he spending it on??

£120 however I would find hard, especially if that has to include food shopping.

I think you need to take control of the food shop, start budgeting more on that, reduce savings for now. Get him to come up with his own solution including alternative to wonga loans.

The £5k overspend (£13k in total) was to repair something that belonged to him and it was necessary (although I suspect it could have been done at half the cost) - had we discussed it as a family, agreed a budget, got a few quotes, talked about the overspend etc then in all fairness I would probably have considered it a family expense, but as I was not consulted about it at all I'm inclined to think of it as his debt.

When our wages are even he should have an extra £200 pounds every month (if I pay for childcare) from the equal split of the bills. However that would leave me substantially better off than him because I am not servicing nearly a grand of debt every month.

We have had a particularly lean couple of years, I've only just finished mat leave and have been working part time as childcare costs for 3dc are crippling but between us we should have enough for a comfortable life (we both drive bangers, we holiday in this country, don't have expensive hobbies, eat out out once in a blue moon) especially with the extra work I've taken on.

The 'savings' are more like a rainy day/big expenses pot - by the time I've paid for birthdays, a week away in summer, MOTs/ car tax/car repairs, any white goods or big household expenses and then Christmas ...we rarely have anything left at the end of the year!

Thanks everyone for your comments, this is really helping me work out how I feel and what I want to do next.

I love DH and I have no intention to LTB, but he minimises this to the point where I start to wonder if I am just being materialistic - he actually text me earlier to say he hated it when we argue "over nothing" grrrr

I would pay the debt off with savings, and get him back to a clean sheet. On the understanding he takes on no more debt. Cut up his CC, change his account to a zero overdraft one and make it clear that if he uses wonga again you will leave him. But I'd want him to really understand and accept that he had done a stupid thing.

Sorry Whois we don't have savings as such, more like a 'big expenses' pot - it's currently got about £300 in it! Certainly not enough to cover what he owes

It is that 'making him understand' element that is crucial to me. I'm open to suggestions?

Sweet Jesus OP, what the hell costs 13K to repair. Has he got his own plane

You are not being materialistic and he shouldn't minimise your feelings.
He may not like it when you argue but he's going to have to get his head out of the clouds and wake upto why you're upset.
Sit him down, tell him you're serious - Wonga and their scandalous interest rates will no longer be tolerated and he has to take another job to pay back the debt quicker (you have 3 so he really can't argue with that)

he actually text me earlier to say he hated it when we argue "over nothing" grrrr

Fucking prick, he's ruining his children's childhoods by using money their mother saved for them on bullshit and he thinks that's nothing.

I'd swing for a man like that.

Next time round I definitely want a man with his own plane!

It's a house. He bought it before he met me, remortgaged up to the max and then when he came to move the market had crashed and it's £15k in negative equity. He rents it out but doesn't make enough to cover the mortgage, so it contributes at least £250 to his monthly outgoings even without repairs

Xpost - that last one was for Frogs legs.

But yes, I could certainly swing for him about now Joins. He's not ruining my kids childhoods, I would never let them go without (and frankly id rather go camping than Eurodisney) but I increasingly feel I don't want to be financially associated with him. Or if I am, it's with me in full control and I'm not sure that would be healthy for either of us.

If he preferred to go £5k into debt rather than lose face, then yes it's his debt. And if it went on his house - then yes yes yes it's his debt, because if you're financially separate then if that house gets out of negative equity and he sells, then you won't be seeing any of that profit yes?

On the bigger picture: check out what your liabilities would be if he carries on like this. As you're married, you can't really be separate, which is a worry.

His comment about 'arguing over nothing' tells you everything you need to know. Yes, he needs to hit rock bottom - or rather, you need to stop bailing him out. It's the worst thing you can do for your family, if he can't see there's a problem BEHIND the actual cash flow issues - and he can't- this is going to happen again and again and this prick is going to take you all down with him.

He wants to call it 'nothing'? Start talking very sensibly and cheerfully about the fact that it's better if you divorce if this is the way it's going to be, as you see this quite starkly as an issue of threat to your family and children's safety and security.