MP's to debate school holiday rules/fines on 24th February

[mummymeister]

Please can I ask anyone who feels as strongly as I do to write to their MP and ask for the changes in the rules regarding school holidays to be reversed. there is a back bench debate at 4.30pm on the 24th February and it is really important to bring this issue to the fore. There have been so many stories on MN of people wanting a day for funeral, to attend a family event, to visit family abroad that I know if all of us affected or who feel strongly write in at least we will have tried.

Well said Rambling.. and I know I have said it before if anyone suggests I camp for a week.. I love camping when its nice and spontaneous with dry (not even hot) weather. But when I last took a camping holiday (preplanned August different job) my feckin tent blew down and we slept in the laundry room. I don't think my children had their characters built.

I do wonder, as a percentage, the naysayers who say we shouldn't take a term time holiday, how many are able to go on hoilday themselves in the school hols?

Me too. We're lucky inasmuch as we could probably afford a holiday in holiday time every 2-3 years. What we can't do is get the time off work. We will never, ever have a family holiday unless we break the rules. I would like to visit my bro in Australia and take dcs to DPs home country, it would be great but even more than that, I want all of my children with both of their parents on holiday together, just once every few years. The fact that I would prefer a caravan in Bognor over a the Maldives is irrelevant. It is a time issue for us mostly , not a money one.

I am new to camping Jupiter, I am not really looking forward to it! I just want to expose DC to another country.

The more I read the more I realise that Michael Gove is on another fucking planet.

I set a high price on education but I also set one on seeing the world, experiencing new cultures and travelling.

The thought that their children will still be going to Thailand and where ever every year and mine are stuck with canvas in France for four nights makes me feel sick.

Daykin

I have never taken dc out of school for a holiday, I think it is wrong.
No, we can't afford a holiday during school hols.
However, with dd our 3rd child we H.ed so go when we like.
If you sign up to school you are signing up to the terms and conditions.
You could always H.ed if you don't like the system, that's what we did.

How can I H Ed More than? who will pay my bills? who? You? Please do I would love to do that.

Seriously can I opt out of working to Home Ed? Can I? I need to know more.

Not everybody can afford to home ed.

Parents pay taxes to fund education.

It is tricky to home ed if you work.
I can not believe that it harms a primary school child's education to take them out for say one week a year. I'm not suggesting weeks and weeks, but one week a year to enable families to have a break together seems worthwhile to me.
I often struggle to get any time off in school holidays - sometimes for a year at a time. When I can get time off, then we go camping as it is affordable in the school holidays and the kids love it - but getting that time is not always possible.

*Jupiter8

It is not the fault of the law makers that you don't have alternate choices for education. If you want what's offered you send your kids, you can hardly moan when you signed up to it.
I too would have to work if I wanted to go on holiday during school holidays. I can't afford it so go at a cheaper time, usually in this country.
Should I moan, woah is me?
Holidays are a luxury if you can afford them during school holidays, not some sort of entitlement.
I must admit though that the extenuating circumstances doesn't sound fair or managed well.

FWIW my two brothers (and me) had a week out even up until secondary. They are both six figure earners. I had an excellent job until I had two children and worked my way DOWN the career ladder, but thats another story. Ok it may be an exception or a generalisation, but really?

No-one says you have to HE during school hours. And those who do HE find that, with only one child to deal with, they generally only need 2 or 3 hours a day maximum to keep up with the expected rate of progress. I'm not saying you should do it but it doesn't necessarily involve stopping work, although clearly you have to make arrangements for childcare while you are at work.

some schools wont be bothered and wont even refer for a fine and some will

I'm sure there is some variability between schools. There is also variability between LAs. In the most recent year for which statistics are available 15 LAs issued no fixed penalty notices at all. At the other end of the scale Kent issued 3,455. For what it is worth, Kent will only issue a fixed penalty if the child has been absent for at least 10 sessions during a single term. That level of variation concerns me.

Morethan.. Its an enviable position to be in.. that you would have to work if you wanted to go on holiday during school holidays. I have to work. Period. Not knocking anyone who has the choice not to.
My life as is probably 90% of people on here (haven't called ONS by the way). Is up, out childcare, where are my kids?, who are they with? childminder grandparent, oh holidays,, out of school club grandparents, shit must do laundry, make dinner, oh work, oh hell where are my kids? with the childminder? grandparents? weekends.. laundry.. maybe clean oh more laundry... no we can't go to xyz we are broke..
please don't deny me a week downtime.. nooooo...

I don't agree with the stupid statement about education suffering and also believe that holidays can be enriching and very educational.
I just think there are more reasons not to allow holidays during term time.

JupiterGentlefly - Well done. But the big problem with your story as evidence is that there is no control group. In other words, there is no way of telling how you would have performed without the absences. Also a sample of 3 is far too small to be statistically significant. And, of course, there is no way of knowing whether your absences held back others in your class due to the disruption.

I'm not going to home ed. What a ridiculous suggestion. I can't have a debate with someone who thinks that I should pull 4 kids out of school and give up my job (which I am good at and get paid for and worked hard to get and enjoy) in order to teach them about things I don't know with skills I don't have so I can enjoy 5 days in Skeg every few years.

This is not the system I 'signed up for'. Since having children in school I have had one holiday (5 days), two weddings (one a 'close family member, the other not) one funeral (not a 'close family member') one day to visit an exhibition at the British Museum (couldn't get tickets during holidays - it was fab) and 2 friday afternoons off because I've needed to be at the other end of the country for a specific time for an unexceptional reason.This is what it was like when I 'signed up'. A normal amount of flexibility so people could live their lives.

Jupiter

I don't know how you do it, hat off to you and others in your position.
I understand you need down time and apologise if my posts sound bad .

I don't agree with the stupid statement about education suffering

I'm afraid there is plenty of research to back up the "stupid statement". Of course parents don't want to believe that taking a holiday in term time damages their child's education, nor do they want to believe that they are disrupting the education of the other pupils in the class. Some parents may be right. But the evidence available is that in most cases they are damaging their child's education and possibly also the education of their classmates.

The effect of a single day off is, of course, small. But research strongly suggests a direct relationship between the number of days off and GCSE grades.

GCSE grades are a very narrow definition of education though prh.

phr47bridge - what exactly is your job? you are as others have said an expert so what do you do? I am just starting to read through the transcript of the meeting of MP's today. the absence due to holidays is tiny I quote "...The numbers were that 7.5% of absence in primary schools and 2.5% in secondary schools was related to holidays. ...."

George Mudie Leeds East said "....The Secretary of State for Education should just repeal the regulations that he slipped through when nobody was looking. They have genuinely caused so much pain across the country....."

".....What have the Government done? They have put through the measure without any real consultation. The first bad thing the Secretary of State did was to push through the measure to operate from last September, but people had already made their arrangements for holidays. They had taken the advice of the travel trade and got in quick, seeking the cheapest bookings. Suddenly, it was illegal to do so. There was no consultation. The measure was peremptorily introduced, smuggled through the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments....."

Then Lorely Burt says "....On the statistical evidence, the measures in question are a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Before the rules changed, authorised family holidays accounted for 7.5% of all absences in primary schools, which works out at 0.4% of all sessions missed. This has been mentioned before, but the figure goes down to 2.5% when a child goes to secondary school, because parents recognise the additional importance of their children’s education as they progress—that translates into 0.1% of all sessions missed. Are those therefore the families whom we should be penalising?

Absence for family holidays is lower among those who are the parents of persistently absent pupils. That is another thought—the family holiday parents are not the same as the irresponsible parents who allow their children not to attend school. We need to have some sense of proportion....."

So Prh47bridge - 0.1% of the sessions missed were due to authorised family holidays. and still you think this is the thing that most affects the performance of kids in school??

Paintyfingers. these figures, quoted by MP's in a committee room (so they must be accurate) make an utter, utter laughing stock of Gove. introducing something like this in an under hand way to deal with 0.1% of the absences. I was gobsmacked by these figures - total shock. wouldn't you have thought the other 99.9% of absence in senior school was what was affecting performance.

I know paintyfingers so why aren't more people up in arms about this. I am so angry now that I have seen this 0.1% figure that I cannot sleep. livid, furious. Heres the link

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/unknown/1044/

Don't read it if you want some sleep