to be annoyed about my friend lying about her address on a school application?

[cavell]

My friend wants her son to go to a very over-subscribed secondary school. They almost certainly live too far away for him to be offered a place in March, but her parents live very close indeed to said school. She plans to put her parents utility bills in her own name so she can claim she has moved in with them (with her son, obviously). Since her parents live almost next-door to the school, she hopes she will get a place for her son off the waiting list. If they do get offered a place, she plans to move house "properly" to live near the school, but if the plan fails then they will stay put and her son will probably end up at a good-but-not-great school.

Half of me says that it is none of my business. The other half is a bit annoyed because I think it is unfair and deceitful and it just isn't something I would ever contemplate doing.

I'm not actually considering "informing" on her, I'm just having a grumble. AIBU?

Don't report her, mind your own business. She only said she was thinking of it. Plenty of people do fraudulent things to get their kids into schools - getting their kids baptised Catholic and then never going to Mass once they get in etc etc. People play the system all the time, and that is up to them and their own conscience, not yours.

I don't understand why people care so little for children who are not their own. Especially the ones who's parents don't give a damn. They need all of us to look out for them, and not just climb over the less lucky to grab everything for their own.

Everyone I know who has tried to play the school system to a degree has very privileged children already.

She is soooo likely to get caught. Classmates parents will notice pretty quickly that they live too far away.

I am not sure I would report, but I would be sorely tempted. Wr missed out on our favoured infant school by about one place (though now love our school). One person like that may have resulted in our pain in the neck school run.

I'm not going to report her because it would feel mean to do so.

Doesn't mean I don't feel bad for other parents who play by the rules and, in doing so, lose out to cheats. Bit like us, really (although not in this particular case).

IME the council are not 'shit-hot' they have not got the resources or the motivation to do anything other than cover their arses by doing reasonable checks.

They wouldn't need to be shit-hot to find out in this case. They automatically do checks against council tax records and the voters' roll, and they would instantly discover that the parents is apparently paying council tax at two different addresses and has apparently "moved house" at a very suspicious time.

In our area there was a big fuss last year when a local councillor moved out of her normal address which she was renovating into her mother's address, a few days before the admissions deadline; mother's address happened to be very close to the only school the councillor nominated. She was refused the place she wanted and, according to the reports, was going to take the council to court. However, we heard nothing more about that so I rather doubt that she got anywhere.

you have to love people who think that they are the very, very first to think of these spiffing wheezes, and that no-one can possibly find out.

she'd better find a new career because she's a crap criminal.

YANBU to be annoyed but if she is your friend, I really wouldn't report her.

The truth always outs and I seriously doubt she will get away with it, she will either be outed by someone or they will discover in their checks.

OP - I think you're right, and it isn't fair but presumably she can rationalise it the way other people do. You're a good friend not to report her, and would also be a good friend to ask her if she knows that the LA often find people like her out. Then I'd leave it if I was you - let her be captain of her own soul and you of yours. She'll probably feel a little bit bad if she's honest with herself, and you'll probably think a little less of her, and so be it!

What is the 'criminal' offence though?

I know someone who has done this successfully with 3 children and she lives in a council house so you might think that the council would know where she lives.

I would love someone to dob her in but I won't.

It's a shit system.

Yes, that's what gets my back up so much about the sibling policy! Two friends of mine have got their children into the best local school, for which they are outside of catchment, because their first dc have dyslexia. But their younger children, three of them, will all go there and do not have an sen at all.

Give me the details and I'll report it for you - which LA is it?

If I felt strongly enough I'd report her. This kind of sneaky selfish dishonesty really annoys me

This. ^^

It is parents like this that stop a legitimate place being allocated to another child. So this is by no means victimless.

I would certainly let her know that her actions are unscrupulous and that it was unacceptable.

I am pretty sure that two families at my ds's school have done this, because I know the families enough to know where their grandparents live and where the parents live.

I can't say I would ever report it, but I do think she is playing a very dangerous game. IMO a child being taken out of a school shortly after starting there and having to start on their own at another school is far worse than going to a less good school in the first place.

Why aren't you reporting it? That is very amoral (of her).

"I don't understand why people care so little for children who are not their own. Especially the ones who's parents don't give a damn. They need all of us to look out for them, and not just climb over the less lucky to grab everything for their own."

Also that, completely agree SEmyarse!

I bet if she lived in the CA and her child's place was taken by a child whose parents did not live in the CA and lied, she would be the first to report them

I'd love to know how she's going to handle events at school, kids for tea etc etc.even if she says she moved after the datetc, people are not soft. These days people are spying all the time!

at our school, most parents are aware of the last distance offered, it makes the newspapers every year because distance comes before siblings so siblings often lose out naturally during large intake but worse when its to fraudsters! There's no way anyone can get away with it in our school now as every parent is on the look out and they are ruthless! In a small town, nothing gets past them!

One of the parents who lied but somehow got a place on the waiting list some time later, is ignored by parents, the kids is never invited to tea, parties etc. Sad for the child but many of these parents have friends or family members who didn't get in.

Schools do not think twice about expelling a child at any point, if it is found out the parents lied on the application. I couldn't take the shame...

I don't think parents realise that places can be withdrawn even after a child has started at a school. Why on earth would they risk it otherwise?

It is the same as parents suddenly becoming church goers so the priest/vicar will sign the form for the very good church high school saying they are regular attenders. Who do they think they are trying to kid.

Call me a hypocrite but id rather blatently lie to the LEA than con the church.

I recall dimly that councils may have the powers to actually do surveillance on people they suspect of cheating on school applications. I'm pretty sure said powers were used in the past to spy on people suspected of littering etc... I guess they end up in court? Who would want that...?