to be annoyed about my friend lying about her address on a school application?

[cavell]

My friend wants her son to go to a very over-subscribed secondary school. They almost certainly live too far away for him to be offered a place in March, but her parents live very close indeed to said school. She plans to put her parents utility bills in her own name so she can claim she has moved in with them (with her son, obviously). Since her parents live almost next-door to the school, she hopes she will get a place for her son off the waiting list. If they do get offered a place, she plans to move house "properly" to live near the school, but if the plan fails then they will stay put and her son will probably end up at a good-but-not-great school.

Half of me says that it is none of my business. The other half is a bit annoyed because I think it is unfair and deceitful and it just isn't something I would ever contemplate doing.

I'm not actually considering "informing" on her, I'm just having a grumble. AIBU?

[Narnia72]

Someone did similar in my child's reception class. Blatantly boasted about renting to get a place in the school despite actually living 5 miles away from said school. We all knew, we all reported it, the case went to tribunal and the family got away with it. No one knows why. The woman turns up in her massive 4x4 stuffed with her 4 kids, all of whom will now get places under the sibling rule. It's rubbish. 4 local kids have lost out as a result. I really hope they change the rules on siblings out of catchment ASAP but they don't seem to be looking at it, despite the fact that there are loads of parents who have moved significantly out of catchment once their first child is in. I don't get it. It's got an outstanding ofsted, but really isn't THAT amazing. We're in an area of good schools, the alternatives are not sink schools with 90% of children with English as a second language.

It's caused a lot of bad feeling in the playground.

[justtoomessy]

I fully expect someone to cause trouble for me as the school I need my DS is outside of my catchment area and people know where I live. However, because I work long shifts/nightshifts during the week my DS sleeps there more than my address and my mum does not drive so I need to use her address.

I have just checked the local council site that states to put the address that the child sleeps more at during the week so I think I am okay.

"The school place will be allocated based on the address at which your child spends the majority of weekday nights – so this is the address that you should use on your application.

If you give two addresses, we will decide which address should be used as the main residence for the purpose of processing your application as we only accept one current address. We may ask for evidence to confirm the address given."

This is causing me some stress though as I have no way of getting DS to school on time if they don't class my mums address for school purposes.

[LillyAlien]

In my experience the sort of parents who do this are rather stupid people. They are keenly aware that their own educational privilege has got them a decent middle-class job, despite being much less intelligent than a lot of people around them. They have little understanding of the value of actual education, and seem to think that it's enough for their little darlings to be in proximity to other children of the right sort for them to become successful.

Think about it people. The main educational effect you've just had on your child, particularly if they are eleven, is that you've just taught that that's is ok to lie and commit fraud. A great start in life.

[bongobaby]

My exp went behind my back and filled in ds primary school admission form stating that ds lived with his grandparents around the corner so that ds could attend a catchment school close to them. Blatent lie and fraud on his part.
I only found out through my solicitor from a letter sent from his solicitor.Ds lived with me away from this school and not at all in the catchment. I was so angry he had done this and went to see the Head was who not amused when i explained and said that ds would of been immediately asked to leave the school. As it also turned out that one child local to the school was on an appeal to get a place for this school. And because the truth had came out that child no longer needed to appeal and took ds place that rightfully belonged to the child nearest to the catchment.
The truth will always out in the end.

[Summerblaze]

Genuinely confused about this. My dd got into a primary school that we live a few miles away from. It wasnt over subscribed but nice and convenient for me due to my parents living close. A few years later and my ds1 was due to start. During the form filling time, we were actually staying at my parents as we were doing a lot of building work to the new house we had moved to (still a few miles away). The school is now over subscribed due to moving up the tables. I rang the la to tell them that i was staying at my parents house but still had my own house. He said not to worry and just put down my parents address. Doesnt sound like shit hot to me.

[Summerblaze]

Genuinely confused about this. My dd got into a primary school that we live a few miles away from. It wasnt over subscribed but nice and convenient for me due to my parents living close. A few years later and my ds1 was due to start. During the form filling time, we were actually staying at my parents as we were doing a lot of building work to the new house we had moved to (still a few miles away). The school is now over subscribed due to moving up the tables. I rang the la to tell them that i was staying at my parents house but still had my own house. He said not to worry and just put down my parents address. Doesnt sound like shit hot to me.

[mydoorisalwaysopen]

I asked our local school about this kind of thing as we may need to temporarily move away but will be coming back although would be away at the time of application. They said as long as we have an address in catchment at the time of application and are living in catchment at start of term then no problem. As your friend intends to move into catchment if her child gets a place is this not a similar situation?

[jamtoast12]

I'm not sure the church thing is the same. In the cases where people start going to church etc, at least they are actually going. In most cases the priest won't sign if you don't go so they do have to actually go. I don't think there's a rule saying you have to be a life long catholic etc to go to school. There shouldn't be a hierarchy of religiousness.

There'd be no point attending a faith school if you are not going to support its teachings etc. my kids go to a faith school (there is no faith requirement other than baptism cert, no church attendance etc). We started going to church with the school. We are not overly religious so didn't go before, we only go now to support dd now she's in school.

When people suddenly attend church to get into school, I don't think it is fraud as everyone can do that if they choose to. If people have a problem with that then I don't see why they would want their kids in a faith school anyway as most are heavily religious and require church visits when part of the school.

I think that different to putting down false address....you either go to church or you don't.

[hackmum]

Unfortunately I can think of two families I know of who have done this and got away with it. In one case, the council investigated but couldn't prove they'd lied. In the other case, the child had actually been at the school two or three years when an application for year 7 came from another child at the same address! But the school just called the parents in for a telling-off and let the child keep the place.

I've also known of parents who have got their children in on the social/medical rule on slightly dubious grounds.

I wish people would stop dressing it up as doing the best for their children blah blah, as if that is some justification for doing something that is both illegal and morally wrong.

[He11y]

If parents can keep quiet until the child has actually started at the school then they will have a good chance of fighting it, as Ms 4x4 mentioned above did.

Most courts would consider it wrong to penalise a child for their parents wrongdoing and LAs know this.

So, if anyone wants to complain, do it before the school term starts!

Personally, I've had two children go to a sink school and I'd do whatever it took - parents who have only experienced good schools will have no older how awful some of them are.

As it is, my 12 year old got a place at one of the best schools in the area because year 7 pupil numbers are low this year ahead we deliberately enrolled her in a feeder school in year 6. I was open with them about our reasons for choosing the primary school so nothing underhand.

She would have been placed above children closer to the school but still out of catchment, but would not have taken a catchment or sibling place.

It made no difference as they had spare places at the secondary for the first time in years and we have decided to home-ed anyway, but would I do it again? You bet I would!

[He11y]

*no idea - really wish this forum had an edit button!

[Dawndonnaagain]

I would do this in a heartbeat to get my girl a headstart because she needs it.
My twins both needed a headstart. I wanted them to get into the school that I felt was appropriate for their needs, but do you know what, I went the legitimate route. I went to appeal. I won because I constructed a good case. It was a fight, but it was worth it and although I didn't consider any other route, I'm glad we did it the way we did, no living in fear of being caught out.

[MissyO]

They wouldn't need to be shit-hot to find out in this case. They automatically do checks against council tax records and the voters' roll, and they would instantly discover that the parents is apparently paying council tax at two different addresses and has apparently "moved house" at a very suspicious time

Imagine you were with parents split up and move in with parents all the time especially if they are abused and have to get out quick

[CouthyMow]

I was investigated when I moved house. I had been on the council waiting list for NINE years. I have a child in Y11 at the school, and a child who was going into Y7. I got offered the school in April. I was moved in June. I could have had to wait another three years for a place to become free, I had no clue that I was going to be moving until NINE DAYS before I moved.

I was cleared in the investigation, but it was a stressful time, coming on the back of a house move.

The issue is that the Secondary near my old house is the 'best' in my town, the two closest to my new house are the 'worst' in town. And the 'best' school gives sibling link with no heed to catchment. And I have a younger DS who will benefit from that.

It wasn't a short term thing in the old house - I had been there over nine years, and was trying to stay in that area. They really DO CHECK ANY INCONSISTENCIES THOUGH.

[Groovee]

Our council insist on the council tax letter now!

[hiccupgirl]

The councils very definetly check and use things like the council tax register and other means to check.

My friend has a 4 yr old like me. They have very recently bought a house to renovate that is a 3 min walk from the house they are renting but is in a different primary school catchment area. She got a phone call from school admissions to check if they were planning to move to the new house before her son starts school in September. As it is the renovation will take about a year so it's all above board and the council were happy to use the rented address but they obviously are checking land registry data and keeping track of house sales during the admissions period.

[prh47bridge]

Doesn't sound like shit hot to me

Councils are getting hotter on this all the time. Some councils that didn't bother with checking for false applications a few years ago now have extensive checks in place.

In your situation your son may have been entitled to sibling priority, in which case the address used for your application wouldn't have mattered - he would have got a place whichever address you used. Also each LA makes its own rules as to which address can be used, so it is possible your LA regarded use of your parents' address as acceptable in this situation. Having said that, if I had been advising you I would have told you to get the LA's statement in writing so that you could use it as evidence if they decided to use the address of your new house and your son had missed out on a place as a result.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

I'd have no hesitation in reporting her. I cant abide cheating, its on a par with theft.

We all possibly want something we cant have but hopefully our parents taught us right from wrong so we dont lie or steal to get it.

[Tailtwister]

There's no doubt about it, what she's doing is wrong. I suppose you could argue that if her son does get a place she'll move into the area permanently, but she still isn't playing by the rules.

Parents do this kind of thing all the time because they feel they have no choice. Whether it's lying to the school or suddenly finding religion, it's all the same imo. Would I report her? Probably not.

[dilys4trevor]

Doesn't sound any worse really than claiming you have attended church regularly when you haven't, in order to get into a school. And not really so different to renting a house for a relatively short period to get in. People do these things. It is their kids' educations, of course they will consider and maybe do some of this stuff.

And 'planning' to do this and that, doesn't mean she actually will. People say lots of things to their friends in passing that they are thinking of doing or planning to do. Doesn't mean they will. It takes quite a bit of nerve!

[Zingy123]

Justtoomessy
You need to contact the admissiins department of your LA. Your childcare arrangements do not count regarding a school place. The two addresses are if the child is in shared care.

Regarding the other case they will find out. If you don't report them someone else will.