… to think that no one wants to speak up for the younger generation?

[SnowBells]

I don't know what it is. Maybe political correctness gone mad.

Pensioners who are already wealthy get winter fuel allowance, etc. Each time this kind of stuff gets mentioned on things like Question Time or something, people shout and whistle, showing complete disregard for the subject, and no real debate can happen.

I am not talking about the pensioners who aren't well off. But a huge proportion of pensioners did profit from the higher house prices - something not likely to happen for the younger generation.

Our kids have to pay to go to uni. My generation will retire much, much later. We also have to pay for inflated house prices.

And yet, there will be people who say 'but we've paid our taxes'. Well, we pay taxes and our kids will, too, but we are likely to get A LOT less back. I just feel there's a huge generational wealth divide. And I wonder why no one wants to discuss this properly? Why do people want to stop a debate before it has even had a chance to happen?

Everyone will die. Your legacy is the next generation. So why not speak up for what essentially will be your only legacy?

If my generation finally takes political power and decides to cancel all pensions for baby boomers

state pensions?
public sector pensions?
private pensions?

Ah but you see brett, there are those (usually of the older generation in my experience) who would tell you that 'we need to adapt from the idea of owning our own property' while they sit in their nice house with their mortgage paid off.

Totally agree with you, by the way.

brett - but I have lots of friends who have done everything you mentioned and we are in our late 30s.

DP & I lived in a one bedroom flat until I was 38!

Callani 2-bed terrace in Yorkshire £50,000

Not that I'm saying it would be within everybody's reach just that you seemed to think there were no properties in Yorkshire less than £90,000.

Some others

Clearly you couldn't really cancel private pensions, but state pensions and over-generous public sector pensions need a cull for a lot of that age group. Most of them have huge piles of unearned housing wealth they should be using anyway (but oh yeah, now they want that to be protected too, and somebody else can pay for their old age care if need be).

Anna you need to add 'while collecting rent from the investment property'

Owning property or not is irrelevant, tenants in general have so little protection there isn't an alternative in this country if you want security.

Ah yes I forgot that important bit brett.

chocoluvva - your point re student accomodation is interesting - high standards of student accomodation isnt necessarily a choice.

I was very lucky with my student halls and chose my uni partly because of the availability of a very basic, very cheap hall. £70 pw for a 30 week contract, totalling just over 2k for a year of term-time accomodation, completely affordable on the maintenance loan I got. The majority of halls I looked at at other unis were in the region of £100pw and for 40 week contracts - thats nearly double the price! Admittedly, they are far far nicer halls and you do get more for your money, with en suites, double beds, nice decor, etc etc, but universities and private hall companies have realised they can make far more dosh out of students, who are essentially a captive target market, by upping the standards and forcing them to pay higher prices.

I think another massive problem for the (roughly) under 45's is the phenomenon of fixed-term jobs. At almost 40, in a professional career that requires a PhD to enter, I have never had an employment contract lasting longer than 2 years.

That leaves you feeling pretty disenfranchised - no way can you get a mortgage, and you live in fear of what the landlord will do if you don't find the next contract before your savings run out and you have to consider housing benefit. You can't make any long-term plans.

notallytuts - very interesting.

(love your name btw)

I watched an episode of a program called "long lost family" on channel 4 where a lady gave birth to a little girl in 1960 when she was 18 years old. The boyfriend didn't stay with her, she had to go out to work to look after her ill father and younger brother, she couldn't cope and had to give her little girl out for adoption at 18 months old! (heart breaking).

Clearly there is more help now! That wouldn't have happened these day with the benefits that single mothers get.

I don't really know. I'm 21 (with a DD) and I think times are tough. By the time I became an adult, the job market was wrecked, and I am lucky to work as a barista, despite having gone to university and done a degree. I was one of many, many applicants there and I doubt I could find another job if I was made redundant. Times are tough for everyone. I also don't think it should be a vs debate- we should all be in this together, it's a tough time and it doesn't matter if it was better or worse for those before us.

Sorry Juule, you are right to say that there are houses available under £90k in West Yorkshire - I admit that I was thinking of around just my area rather than the whole county so clearly prices around Wakefield are a bit higher.

Even if you got a £50k house though, saving £5k is still over 5 month's pay (before tax) on NMW.

I am just about in the baby boomer generation and I can assure you that neither me or any of my friends are sitting gloating on a big pile of money. Yes we have equity in our house but with four kids to put through university and help onto the housing ladder we will be downsizing to somewhere small and cheap to free up the money for them.
We will also be working until 68 for our pensions, I doubt we'll be lolling around the Algarve in our old age.

Totally understand your position Moomin and tbh I think some of the stereotypes on this thread (of both old and young generations) are ridiculous.

You mention that you're selling your property to help your kids onto the property ladder and through uni, so surely you must have an understanding of how expensive it is for younger people these days.

Out of interest, would you speak up for the younger generation because of this or do you feel like this is just an accepted part of life now?

My parents didn't work hard. They were paid to go through university, strolled into well paid graduate jobs with 2:2 degrees, their first house was a three bed detached with massive garden, my dad retired at 50 on a half pension (to which he had contributed nothing), and now they get free prescriptions, cut price train travel, free bus travel, winter fuel allowance and goodness knows what else. They paid off their small mortgage years ago and are on about £2,500 net a month. They still bloody whine and complain though

No doubt some will say I sound jealous and horrible. But the baby boomers are the most fortunate generation in history.

There are probably a fair few of us who fall in between the generations here.

I didn't have to pay tuition fees at university & "only" had to pay about £40 a week for a basic single room (shared bathroom & kitchen). I had to take out loans & couldn't sign on during holidays (I worked to clear my overdraft).

The extra level of debt due to tuition fees & the non-availability of such basic university accommodation staggers me & may well have put me off going.

I have, thanks in part to grandparents help, been able to buy a house.

There's no way I'd be able to afford the house I live in now if I hadn't benefited from price rises over the last 10 years.

NI contributions aren't the same as paying into a state pension pot. Current contributions (as well as all taxes - NI is not held separately, it is all just state money) pay out current pensions.

Higher immigration of young(ish) workers who are contributing to the economy has helped to keep pensions & the NHS etc just about affordable. That's not sustainable as we all age & draw pensions & need more costly healthcare. Something has to change - either stopping funding services/pensions or increasing the funding.

Yes I agree Hester

A relative of mine retired at 52 (19 years ago) on a great pension that he had contributed nothing to. He didn't go to university but did the sort of job you would have absolutely no chance of getting now without a degree costing £27k in tuition fees. He bought a cheap (at the time) house, on only one income, that the person with £27k degree could only dream of. He is now screaming about how unfair it would be if he had to pay for care when he's older. Luckily he's in very good health so this is at least another ten years away anyway.

My DH & I are not that young. Early 30s. Still renting, but will hopefully buy this year or next - but only with great help from parents - mainly in-laws. In-laws understand how difficult it is for people younger than them. In fact, they constantly mention it. MiL was a SAHM most of her life. FiL retired at 60 with a final salary pension. In his own words, he thinks what happened is generational robbery. I applaud my PiLs for saying that rather than going the 'woe is me' route.

DH and I both went to top unis. I've got a Masters, he's got a PhD. Uni fees were only just introduced when we went to uni. I finished my first degree back in the early noughties when jobs that were once abundant were suddenly scarce. I went on to do a Masters, but managed to get a coveted internship in a lucrative industry. I thought the ad was for an internship I could do whilst studying. At interview, it turned out that it was actually an ad for two permanent roles. They recruited two people with a Masters degree for those roles, but then called me back. They decided they could create a role for me, and offered me an internship, working 3x a week and I got paid. I must have impressed them at interview, but it was all a blur to me (first ever interview I had!). After the taught part of my Masters, they gave me a full-time role - even before I finished my thesis. They didn't pay that well, but they gave me the platform to launch my career from. My first degree was a 2.2 - I wasn't lazy... I just couldn't understand my professors with weird accents in my first year as I myself came from abroad. I got high 2.1's for my final year, but it was pulled down by prior years. Most employers expected a 2.1. I still think I owe those people I worked for back then a little. They were all insanely clever people (incl. Oxbridge lecturers who had 2nd jobs in London). I also know I was very lucky.

DH finished his PhD a few years later during the credit crunch. He got a 1st for his first degree. He found it A LOT harder, but eventually got a good job. However, I have to say he is freakin' clever. Definitely not your average Joe!!!

DH and I both have younger siblings in their 20s. I don't worry much about mine as he lives in a country that is doing bloody well compared to Old Blighty. However, SiL has recently left a top uni. She is lucky in that my PiLs have paid most of her tuition fees and horrendous expenses at uni (she will have a 'normal-sized' student loan to pay off in future). They couldn't bear the thought of her having massive debts. Unfortunately, she only got a 2.2 - same as what I got for my first degree. This time round, it was probably because her course didn't suit her (she went through clearing, and chose the uni rather than the subject). But I don't think she will have the same opportunities as me.

Then, looking back at some of the people I've worked with from the baby boomer generation. A lot of them had 2.2s. One person went from GCSE to secretary to head of a department to being a Partner. No one can dream of that now.

It has gradually gotten more difficult to get a graduate job. Even I know it was easier for me compared to DH. Definitely much more so for SiL.

Callani
Yes I do think young people have it tough, but it achieves nothing for people to be arguing among themselves. It is the greed of big business and the failure of governments of all colours.

And university education is a complete shambles. When I went, only about 15% of people did. Hardly anyone did subjects like philosophy, the majority did much more vocational degrees. I absolutely loved English and art at school. No way would I have done a degree in it because the perception was that this was your one chance to make yourself as employable as possible. (I did physics and loathed it).
A 2ii was a perfectly decent, average degree, a 2i meant you were a bit above average. Nowadays 70% of students get a 2i. There are courses at places like Liverpool John Moores where everyone gets a 2i. Now, you are hardly getting the academic elite there. You are getting kids who wouldn't have got anywhere near a university or even a Polytechnic 25 years ago. It is grade inflation gone crazy. I am not trying to belittle anyone here, merely pointing out that qualifications now are not comparable to 25 years ago. They are just not. And people who get them are not going to get a sniff of the jobs they would have got with them 25 years ago.

I got a first in a 4 year masters degree (no bachelors) and am no more intelligent than my parents....

....who have about 1 qualification between them, because they were WC and their type didn't go to uni/do A levels. I doubt they even knew anyone who went to uni....

....which is what the majority of older people experienced growing up. but I sure posters will just keep on about how everyone went to uni for free! don't let reality stop your ranting!

Hmm

I'm 53 (nearly 54)
About 5% of the population went into HE
A large proportion of that 5% got a minimum grant of about £250.00 (admittedly fees were paid)
Unemployment for graduates was absolutely dire in 1981 (I think stats prove it)
Interest rates hit 15% in the early 1990's and were commonly 12%
I paid 60% tax on more than half of my earnings in the late 80s/early 90s
Mortgages were for a maximum of 2.5 time income with 1 x an additional income
My first washing machine cost more than half my monthly salary - as did the fridge/freezer
When I bought my first flat in 1982, most flats in my price range did not have central heating or fitted kitchens

Now:
DH and I will be working until we are 66 (well can't claim a state pension before then)
30% entering HE but coming out the other end with about £50,000 debt for three years if parents don't help (and we are the parents who will be helping).
NHS on its knees so God help us if we can't afford to pay for discretionary treatment.

I was born in 1960 because there was no legal abortion and my mother didn't have the courage to go to a back street abortionist.

I think it's all swings and roundabouts - you don't see many dirty, unkempt children around nowadays either, but you did when I was little - in the days when there were children's homes, etc.

Anna I apologised to you. read the post from yesterday.

A large proportion of that 5% got a minimum grant of about £250.00 (admittedly fees were paid)&

Did you bother to adjust that for inflation or did you find it suited your argument better to just use a figure meaningless in year 2014?

I paid 60% tax on more than half of my earnings in the late 80s/early 90s

Marginal tax rates on my earnings when I graduated were 40% on anything over £15k (20% tax, 11% NI, 9% student loan). Also in recent times taxes have been moved far more heavily onto indirect taxation, VAT, Council tax, fuel duty etc. So income tax rates are half (probably less) the story, and meaningless on their own.

I could go on but needless to say your other points are similarly flawed.

Yanbu

Pensioners didn't work any harder than our generation do in fact I'd go as far as saying they worked less for the same.

Most of us have pensions,they just aren't half as good as the older generations and we have to fund their pensions at a rate we can ill afford thus making many powerless to pay more into their own.