to think that pregnant does not have to mean classless and entitled...

[glasgowsteven]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2561592/Pregnant-commuter-forced-sit-carriage-floor-no-one-seat-train-firm-refused-grant-special-pass.html

if you want a first class pass, buy one dear

Entitled

I recall being very pregnant and on a packed train in the boiling heat. No one gave me a seat. I didn't even have something to hold onto as it was so packed and every time the train lurched I thought I would keel over. So I asked a man to move along a bit so I could use the grab handle and he refused! I should have been more assertive but just felt like crying tbh.

Spindoctorofaethelred, I see what you mean, but from what she has said herself she was still able to speak to the other passengers.

I have had to do exactly what I described to get the attention of other passengers so that I could sit down when pregnant and not feeling great. I just find it hard to believe that had she grabbed and tugged at the sleeve of the nearest person and asked for help to find a seat, that they would have just shrugged her off and continued to ignore her. Maybe that is what happens though, I hope not.

What did you mean by the word "classless"? I don't think it makes sense in the context of your post.

It's classless to assume that as a human who isn't well you are entitled to consideration if you happen to have a uterus anyway

I get quite upset by people who tell people to be more assertive rather than tell others to be more considerate. You can be as assertive as you like but if you are unwell and someone doesn't want to move, you can't make them. And you might also feel quite vulnerable what with being ill AND pregnant.

ExBrighton that was my understanding too, hence my comment about the guard. I read a report of this incident yesterday in another paper and there was a comment about not being able to move around the packed train to find a guard, which would reflect my experience of commuter trains.

I don't think it matters what you think of a person if someone appears to need the seat more you give ilyiurs up if you are able.

My second pregnancy was shit, I was in alot of anaemic so regularly dizzy and so uncomfortable you wouldn't believe. If I hadn't has a seat on even the shortest bus journey you have no idea how much harder it would have been. Just xos I slapped on enough make up to not look dead doesn't mean I was well enough to stand for the duration.

Any pregnant or disabled or elderly person needs a seat more than a young able bodied person. I thought it was just manners tbh.

A lot of pain

I thought the same as the OP when I read the article. She travels 3 days a week yet want the same concessions as someone who pays for a monthly/weekly ticket. If she want to sit in first class, she can bloody well pay for it. I did when I was pregnant and it was lovely.

Fucking hell.

Would the very fabric of society crumble if a pregnant woman was allowed to sit in first class without a special pass?

What on earth do you think would happen?

Jesus.

LaGuardia really, have a . What on earth makes you assume that everyone can "bloody well just pay" for first class. Also, if she only travels 3 days a week, why would she pay for a 5 day season ticket 52 weeks a year? As someone said upthread, either they acknowledge the principle that pg women might require this pass or they don't - it actually doesn't matter if they travel 3 days or 5. I am SO SO sick of this idea that anyone who suggests that pregnancy might make people more in need of help / assistance is entitled, spoiled, selfish etc. For fucks sake - I had two very easy pregnancies but still was damn glad to be moved to a downstairs classroom and taken off lunchtime duties in the third trimester. I didn't ask, my lovely, considerate employer offered it and it made the last few weeks of work much more bearable. Why does it have to be that if someone gets something extra there is always such a brutal response?

ExBrightonBell She managed to speak up enough to get a place on the floor, yeah, but we don't know how much that took out of her. It's quite possible that she didn't have anything left after that.

You know, memories are flooding back of how ghastly pregnancy was, now. I think I'll postpone trying for a sibling for another couple of years!

The fact that pregnant women need a pass to sit in first class at all is ridiculous.

I use the tube daily and will always other my seat to an elderly or pregnant person. Normally one of the other passengers will do the same. This article was in The Standard last night and she did not ask for a seat. Most commuters switch off by reading or checking their phones and are just not aware of people. We aren't being rude just oblivious

It's simply two separate incidents. She felt ill and nobody gave her a seat was the 1st, the second being that she applied for the pregnancy pass post incident but didn't meet the qualifying criteria. She is obviously a bit peeved to be missing out regarding the pregnancy pass but it's disingenuous to try and connect the two. Everything is subject to T&C's

In her situation I would have just taken my chances and sat in first class if there was empty seats. Provided I had a ticket that entitled me to travel albeit maybe not a 1st class one I cant imagine guards being so obnoxious that they would turf a visibly sick pregnant woman out of first class?

Well there is a woman in the next village to me she is 92 and carries on with life as if she is 20, obviously this means that all 92 year olds should do the same thing.

So if they want help or a priority seat fuck them those entitled fuckers.

Just like all those pesky pregnant women who should be walking to work instead of being so lazy as to get the train

It's funny how the posters who fall over themselves to accuse women of being entitled or lazy and other such nonsense rarely miss an opportunity on other threads to be sympathetic towards men when they are being entitled and lazy.

Of course the article makes her sound entitled, it's the DM. They hate women.

anyway she did not have to sit on the floor she could have asked somebody for their seat and i have no doubt that she would then have got a seat. perhaps she would rather have sat on the floor and then get paid to whinge to the DM!

Nigella one person has posted about asking someone for a seat while on crutches and being refused, in this thread. Another person has posted about standing, and asking a man to move so that she could have something to hold on to. She was also refused.

Not only are some people utter bastards (a universally acknowledged fact) but some of them are evidently unashamed of it.

It's funny how the posters who fall over themselves to accuse women of being entitled or lazy and other such nonsense rarely miss an opportunity on other threads to be sympathetic towards men when they are being entitled and lazy.

This. If a poster said "Aibu to not have given my seat to random bloke on the bus who said he wanted it"

There would be 800 posts about him having an invisible disability. She was visibly pregnant and unwell enough to sit on a dirty train floor.

yes that is pretty disgusting spindoctor - however the only time i have ever actually asked for a seat, (preg and passing out, hanging onto a strap), about 6 people jumped up bless them they had just been switched off to their surroundings.

I did two pregnancies, commuting every day on the Underground, and nobody ever refused to give me their seat apart from one very apologetic woman with arthritis. She actually tried to get up before I told her not to worry about it (and then the nice man a bit further down the coach gave me his seat). I actually can't stand 'Baby on Board' badges, because I think they're passive aggressive bullshit and if you need a seat you should just ask, but a polite request is rarely refused on the tube. People even stand up to let me put my pushchair in the pushchair space on the district line. And clearly DS would be fine (if in the way) if they didn't.

The woman in the article did come off as entitled, but that's entirely possibly the way it is written. I think the issue of not being able to buy a three day travel card is much worse than the whole first class/standard class issue. I have a colleague who works three days in the office and one at home and she has to buy a full annual pass because it's marginally cheaper than three tickets a week. I really think train operators should have to introduce them.

I think it is shocking that this woman had to stand. Ok she may not have asked anyone but tbh was assuming that she did. She was wearing a badge though so someone could have offered. I would always offer a seat to someone who needed it more whether pregnant elderly or with a broken leg etc. I think it is human decency. In have spent most of my working life not pregnant and traveling on trains and have been happy to do this. I find it hard to understand the attitude of "tough luck" that seems to prevail on mn. And ffs not all of the passengers around her could have also had some sort of medical condition. I think we should all think more about taking care of one another and less of the "why should I, I didn't make you pregnant?" mentality.

Not sure about the first class upgrade. I'd never heard about it, although don't have a season ticket. Surely it isn't necessary though? If you are pregnant and feel unwell on packed train I'd have though you could just sit in first class and explain if necessary. Can't believe anyone would fine you - I have risked it lots of times.

In fact I have bought first class tickets towards the end of pregnancy because started to feel v sick on trains and was fussy about where I sat. But I don't travel everyday and not always into London so I don't know how pricey this would be. Also sme people just can't afford it and that doesn't mean they need it less than I do...

I have been thinking that if we won't accept that pregnant women )among others) need to have a seat and if possible we should give it to them, do we really want to pay for maternity leave from day 1? Not an attractive proposition IMO!

Can I add that people have always got up for me this pregnancy - every time I've asked - which is pretty good going. People in general seem much kinder than mn ers tbh.

However there have been the odd occasions when I've felt too ill to ask which is a shame because these are the days I've felt worse. Also sometimes when feeling particularly bad it hasn't come out quite in the tone of voice i intended! One time I unfortunately started crying when someone gave up their seat - this was probably embarrassing for them but I didn't do it on purpose - esp as they had already gone up! I was just so grateful But they probably did not want that response!

The way she has been quoted is pretty much out of her hands of course. I'm sure the DM never skews a story.

I hate the pregnancy is an illness thing that people spout because many women do struggle with tiredness, dizziness etc especially on overheated trains when pregnant. Any decent person realising that someone was unwell and slumping on the floor should have offered their seat regardless.