Term time holidays and residential school trips

[shebird]

Sorry another rant about term time holiday fines.

DCs school have a residential trip in years 5&6 to an outdoor activity centre at a cost of approximately £250-£300. The trip involves a week out of school in the middle of term. My understanding is that if your child does not go they get fobbed off to another year group and probably won't learn much while their classmates are away. While I'm sure my DCs would love this, I am a bit annoyed that schools can choose to take a week out of school to build rafts and call it education but if I wanted to take my DCs to visit another country or roman ruins I could face a fine or prison? AIBU to send a letter to the school reminding them of the importance of education quoting statistics on attendance and GCSE failure rates?

YABU

The residential trips my children have been on (and I appreciate that not all are the same) have been very educational, including trips to historic places and spending part of the evening writing diaries

And even if they are not educational they are a terrific bonding opportunity and can give the teacher an insight into how the child really ticks

We have had children not want to go and they go to the other class for lessons, again I appreciate that their school may be different. Although they have a teacher they swap teachers for different classes or if they are at a different level

But I fully agree with other posters that if your child doesn't fancy it or you don't want to pay (what can be an extortionate amount!) that there is no problem not sending them

Loads of kids don't go and it does them no harm at all (ds2 wasn't keen to start with)

"School budgets need to increase to cover these residential trips if they are necessary for good education."

Ha ha ha ha ha (mirthless laugh)

I am on the finance committee of a large secondary school. None of the schools in our LEA can get their books to balance right now due to the cuts. How many good teachers would a school have to lose so that your precious darling can go on a fully funded residential?

My nine year old's class are going on a residential trip very soon. It is very good value for money imo at 75 for three days. However my dd does not want to go. I was relieved she didn't want to. She has SN's and I don't honestly think that she would cope. She finds school hard enough as it is, and the staff are not good at meeting her needs. She is very worried about what she will be doing in school when the others are away, and school still are unable to tell me where she will be and what she is doing, so I plan to keep her home. I will be truthful with the school as to the reasons why, and will ask the teacher if she can give us revision work to do over the 3 days. As far as I know, she is the only child not going. There are no fines here (not in England), but I assume I would have been fined if there were :-/ I wouldn't take her out term time for a holiday though, and I do think op is being unreasonable.

Do your school subsidise the trip price for those on low income? If you are struggling I would ask them. Our school certainly offers this.

My dd has been on three residentials with her primary and has loved every minute. She has autism and a statement of SEN and the school have made every adjustment necessary so that she was fully included on each and every activity.
She gained so much from her time away, the teachers cared for her as if she were their own and I think it was worth every penny of the £600 that I paid.
Dd's school press the LEA for extra funding for the pupils with disabilities so that they have sufficient staff to cover extra needs and one year they got a sponsor to reduce costs to parents.
I would say that the residentials have been an invaluable experience for dd and I am very grateful to the staff in school that made it possible for her to attend.
Obviously I take and have taken dd on holidays myself both in and out of term time because dd's HT still authorises them but they are in no way equal to the experience of a school residential. I can't comment as to what the children who don't attend do as dd has never been left behind.

bodyshaper

You mean like the half term and end of term residential trips that many schools run?
Or the national competitions that are only run on weekends?

You really should do some research before you try teacher bashing.

I feel resentful about the school hols situation tbh.
But the thing that really annoys me is the holiday price hike. It just makes it so ridiculously expensive. Family holidays are valuable IMHO. Most ppl ave busy lives and more than enough stress and that time away is cherished, wherever it is. But even in a modest uk holiday costs a bomb.
It's not schools who are at fault though is it?
But I can see its frustrating if there's no flexibility at all, or if you feel they're wasting time sometimes.

And I k ow ppl will say that it's not a price hike, it's a lowering of prices in term time but I think that's simply not the case. The effect is the same.
Not sure what he answer is, but it's a situation I'm sympathetic to.

There are some nasty attitudes to teachers on this thread.

My DD had a great time (25 years ago) at a school residential and she remembers it.

Firstly YABU. There will be plenty of kids who enjoy the residential trips and who do want to go. Education is far more than what a classroom can offer, Ofsted would not look favourably on a school who limits education to the classroom and there is an expectation for schools to provide this type of experience regularly. I find it laughable that people on here are so hung up on what the 'educational quality' is of visiting Disney and theme parks - perhaps the school is realising that alongside the trips kids do value the fun aspect of trips and want to do something for them alongside the 'expected'? How terrible? Schools cannot win!

It is the government who insists on fines for taking students out of school, it is the government who dictate the curriculum to state schools. It is the teachers who design extras to the trips to try and make them enjoyable and appealing to most of the students in their classes. This isn't always possible but at least they try.

If you take one child out of school then the rest of the class move on, that one child is left to try and catch up. If more than one are off all at different times then the catching up becomes unmanageable for the teacher. This has become worse in recent years because of the pace classes are forced to work at. It is very different for children to remain in school whilst the majority are on the residential trip, they will work in improving skills and joining in with work from other classes, there is still educational value in this.

I don't agree that parents should be fined on every occasion, there are so many experiences that are educational which kids are forced to miss out on. A beach holiday is not an educational experience, which is why this has been brought in. It's too rigid but I don't think there is another way, people would just lie about where they were going if they made exceptions.

And no way should teachers be expected to wait until school holidays to run these trips, it is not their choice to run them!

Normally only one or 2 didn't go with my sons school, so they could stay at home or go into P1. But this year 20 stayed behind so they had a suspended timetable type week. Where they did different things. Think they paid £20 each for it. They didn't feel they missed out and it worked well.

And, for the record, teachers aren't paid for the vast bulk of their holidays. You think we should give up even more of our free time unpaid?

Ds won't be going on residentials as they won't be suitable for him. We plan on taking him away ourselves whilst the rest of his class are away and would expect this to be authorised.

They do not 'call it' education- it is education!
It is exhausting work for teachers, be thankful they do it.

Don't count on it, spikey.

Bunbaker - None. You wouldn't have to lose any staff so my "precious darlings" can go on these trips.

Delivering the curriculum in budget is the core of a head teacher's job. If they cannot do it they should not be in post. If that meant there were no head teachers, that would be quite a lot of pressure on the government to actually fund schools properly.

I think it is shocking that a teacher thinks it's fine to push the costs of a state education off on to pupils' parents as a matter of course. If the school can't afford these trips they shouldn't run them as a part of the school day.

Obviously I would prefer our state education to be much better funded, with smaller classes, better paid and qualified staff, better facilities and better, free, extra curricula activities. I'd happily pay more tax for that (whether I had children or not) And I vote and and campaign to that end. I realise it isn't successful. Nevertheless, I don't think the alternative should be to put extra costs onto the budgets of parents in the coercive manner schools currently seem to. It contributes hugely to the two tier system we have and is yet one more reason for schools to attempt to skew their intake towards the more wealthy.

"If they cannot do it they should not be in post."

I agree to a certain extent, but you reach a point where you can't cut back any more because it affects the quality of education. I have seen the figures. Many schools are losing very experienced teachers because they can't afford to pay them. They are being replaced with NQTs who are much further down the pay scale.

At my school they are making some redundancies in order to balance the books because there is nothing else they can cut back on.

I'm a teacher who has led 13 residentials over the years for my classes. They have all been incredibly successful.

This year, I'm scared stiff about leaving my 18 mth old ds for 3 days. It will be the first time I've been away from him over night. However, I am prepared to do this for the sake of my class.

It makes me sad that parents don't appreciate the time I'm giving up to go (mainly unpaid) and the time I've spent planning it.

There are a few parents and children who have chosen not to go. That's fine, they will go to another class. I will not be providing lesson plans for them. I've already done that for the children I'm taking away. They've chosen not to go. I'm providing an education on those days.

All of the children with additional needs are coming with us, we are experienced and can deal with whatever is needed. We have also helped out many parents where money is an issue so that their children can attend.

Those people suggesting teachers do this in their own holiday time are seriously deluded and entitled. Maybe they should give up their holiday time to run residentials?

School residentials are not a new fad! I went away for 5 days in Y5 (3rd year juniors) and a 5 day PGL activity residential (in tents) in Y6 in 1975 and 1976. My brother and sister went on the SS Uganda on a cruise in their last year at primary school in 1967 and 1969. Lucky them!

My DS2 has ASD and a statement of SEN. He went on his Y6 residential with his mainstream school and was very well supported. He didn't join in with everything but still had a great experience. He actually went on a 4 night residential with his special school when he was four and can still remember parts of that!

Teachers don't get paid any extra for these residentials, and usually look shattered when they come from home from the stress and lack of sleep and I always thank them.

Our school have always said that if a parent couldn't afford the trip they would try to help. Children generally miss the trips because their parents they feel they would get homesick.

I worked in a primary school as a TA and spent the week with the six out of sixty DC who didn't go on their residential. We had an activity week organised on the poet, Roger McGough which culminated in attending a workshop with him. Not just colouring in. I guess if only one DC didn't go they would probably be put in with Y5.

My friend's PFB and only DC didn't go on his Y6 residential because his parents didn't think it was worth the money. (£350) They were able to take him on holiday themselves instead, but this was before the recent rule tightening. He really regretted it. My DS1 found it the best week of his primary school experience.

Clam, we have already had days authorised as exceptional circumstances when the rest of his class have been on day trips. There is no way they will take him overnight anywhere when they can't manage a 5 hour trip.

Spikey I'd be questioning whether your ds is in the right school if your child isn't able to be fully included in all aspects of school life tbh. In dd's mainstream primary are children with profound and multiple disabilities but the school work tirelessly to ensure that they are included in all aspects of school life from trips to residentials to school performances and sports days and swimming lessonS. No parent should be expected to put up with less IMO.

Unfortunately there is no provision locally for children with ds's needs. The school he attends is the most suitable there is.

Then the school need to be pressing the LA to provide the the funds/staff/training required in order for your ds to be a fully included member of his school. It is appalling that you have been allowed feel that ds having a "half life" in his current placement is the best you can get. If the school can't provide what ds needs then either the LA provides whatever makes it possible or they look for a placement where his needs will be fully met either in an independent specialist or an out of County school (as my ds is)

Of course they are not a new fad! I am 62 yrs and we went on them from normal state schools.