gggrrr childcare

[MrsBucketxx]

Aibu to think nurseries and cm's seem to be the only profession, that takes money regardless if they have done any work that day.

Sick children yup you pay
Holidays yup you pay
They take a holiday you have to find childcare and pay again
You want a holiday you pay
Children at nursery when you use a cm you pay.

It seems to be the same across the board. Aibu to think this is wrong.

I am self employed and this would never hapoen in my own line of work

But I do think that if you want to be paid to go on holiday you have to be an employee. If you are self-employed, you build it in to your overall financial position, as a family.

This.

There are benefits to being and employee and there are benefits to being self employed. When people want the autonomy of self employment coupled with the paid holidays of being an employee, there are, quite rightly, accusations of wanting to have your cake and eat it.

I don't know of any other self employed role where you can your punters to pay you while you're on holiday.

I suppose you're paying to keep the place. If your child is sick or you are on holiday, the CM or nursery can't fill that place with another child.

But if childminding is your chosen profession you have no choice but to be self-employed and it's all well & good saying build it into your financial position but this means increasing the hourly rate which then pushes you out of the market. If you can't afford time off unpaid you literally never get a break & believe me you (& family) need it! Give me employment over self-employments any day.

OP, what exactly is 'stifling the economy'? People getting sick pay a d holiday pay? Is it preferable for everyone to work themselves into the ground 52 weeks of the year for the sake of the economy?

My cm doesn't charge for sick days or holidays. Fine for holidays if that works for her - there is plenty of notice for holidays so I figure she budgets for them. I bloody well pay her regardless if my child is sick even though she doesn't charge because why should she unexpectedly lose out? I think a harmonious and resentment-free relationship is imperative for good quality childcare - I appreciate how hard she works and she will always be flexible with hours/days so it's give and take.

If my employer announced at random that they weren't going to pay me for a few days, I would be fucked. I have bills, mortgage etc to pay for. How on earth can a nursery or cm be expected to be different?

And I pay my cm for the 3hrs my child is at pre-school because she is on call for him during that time. I am paying her to be responsible for him - he has been sent home after a nasty fall for example. If that happens on one of her days, she would have to go fetch him. So she gets paid for that time!

ffs you read the cms contract of service and you sign it. it's then a legal document that all parties adhere to.

I personally didn't know any cms who charged for their illness or holidays. of course you charge the parents for theirs as you can't, unlike other businesses, just go else where for money. funnily enough you can't pull random children off the street to fill the place if your parents decide to go skiing for 4 weeks in the summer so you can't then afford your mortgage.

you pay for the place. if you choose not to use that place then you pay.

if you don't like the terms and conditions then shop around.

thank god all my parents saw me as a child care partner to be treated with the respect and love that I in turn showered on their children.

a cm is a self employed business owner and as such sets rates, terms and conditions. you either sign and agree if shop around. plenty don't charge for their holiday or sick pay. use the ones who don't.

if you signed a contract agreeing terms them don't butch about them in here. what a stupid thread.

I sympathise hugely, but I think your frustration is aimed in the wrong direction.

In the past I have gone without food and walked round in winter wearing boots with holes in to pay my childcare bills, so I know where you're coming from, I really do. However, while childcare left me so broke it very nearly broke me, I never begrudged what I was paying.

While my DC were so little they were in the care of CM and nursery, these carers were the next best thing to me my DC had. They were entrusted with the care of the two beings most precious to me in the world. The fact that I had carefully chosen people I felt to be worthy of this task meant that I felt they earned every penny, and TBH if I'd have had more disposable income, I'd have happily paid more. While I won't pretend it felt unfair to have to pay for a service you're not getting (e.g. if child is sick) I totally understood why I had to - why should the CM be penalised for me having a sick child? It's not as though she could make her money back on the unexpectedly free place.

Your frustration should be aimed at the government (not just this lot, but all governments past and present of all political persuasion). We have the highest childcare costs in Europe. That's what needs to change. There needs to be more financial help for working parents, such as subsidies or tax breaks.

But I'd argue that if you're being charged with the task of caring for vulnerable members of the next generation, you should be of a high calibre and worth more than NMW.

YABU.
You could always give up being self employed and save the 26k you spend on childcare.
Though you may find that your food bill and heating costs go up.

Perhaps OP should put her money where her mouth is, and open a childcare facility that does not have any of the practices she outlines?

If she's right, and it is just providers taking the piss, she'll rapidly be very successful with an alternative model.

CM and nurseries really don't earn very much and would you really leave your child with somebody earning below the minimum wage.

Plus if your child is ill, its not as if they can fill it with another child that day, so they have to charge. My CM does not charge when she's ill and I think she's daft. However, as most of her parents would have to pay for care elsewhere, she feels its unfair for them to have to pay twice.

This attitude across the board really stifles the economy imo

Bullshit.

Your attitude is why people are so poorly paid = the need for tax credits to subsidise shitty wages = higher foverent spending.

*government

I'm a childminder and am so glad the op isn't one of my parents!
I charge £3.75 an hour and that includes toddlers, soft play, food, outings and all crafts.
If the child is poorly, I still get paid but if I'm ill, I don't get paid.
In other words, if I'm open, I expect payment. If I'm closed, I don't.
Can I be any fairer op?!

You're paying for the place.

I've used childminders and nurseries and have never used one where I have had to pay when they are closed.

However, I have always paid for the place when they are open, even if I don't use it due to sickness or holidays.

You're using a service, so if you don't like the terms of a particular business, find another one.

If you rent a house do you then expect a rent refund for when you're on holiday because you're not using the house?

How about a refund of your council tax if you're out of the country for a couple of weeks?

Refund on your car insurance if you're not using it for a couple of weeks?

Do Tesco give you a refund if you don't use all the food they sell you so it goes off in your fridge?

You sign a contract to buy a service and you pay for it whether you choose to use it all or not.

i am a childminder

i work 45-50 hours a week.

I dont charge for my holidays or my sickness.

I charge for any time off taken by my little friends

just did my tax return for last year.....i worked a 45+ hour week for a fabulous sum of....drum roll.......£10,000!

when i worked it out (taking away my hols) i think it came to £3.50 an hour....

i am a graduate.....i love my job

i am not money grabbing or diddling anyone

Zero hours contracts were the norm in the childcare setting where I worked. There were 4 of us who were rung at 7am if someone was sick or was sent home if things got quiet (some children went home sick so I lost my days pay). Luckily I worked almost full time but was also a student at the time. This was more than 10 years ago and it was very common.

I find it surprising that OP is being jumped on. I didn't think her post was criticising childminders or nurseries, but the cost which is one of the highest in Europe. I agree with Dahlen, the government is to blame. On average, we pay a third of our salaries in childcare whilst Sweden for example the cost is kept under 10 percent. In the past, parents also had more choice of staying at home which we don't have anymore due to increased cost of living and mortgage...so yes I agree with OP the cost is too high but the only way I can see it lowered i by government subsidy which is not gonna happen...better not have kids, huh? Just like some posters suggested.

I find it very, very hard to believe that Nursery Chains (eg Asquiths) aren't profitable - I was at a big chain nursery today. I member of staff said that the company had made £10 million profit last year. It was a bottom end nursery chain, with not great resources and mostly minimum wage staff. I wouldn't send my children (If I had some) to it, or any other big chain.
The big chains account for quite a small amount of the market BTW. 5%-ish.

MrsBucketxxx
You may pay £40 a day for your nursery space, however the staff are on minimum wage in most cases, maybe a few pence more if in management.
The extra money goes on buying food to provide your child with meals and snacks whilst at nursery for the day, nappies and wipes for your child and other supplies for activities such as paints, glitter, paper etc. it also will be spent on new equipment for your child to play with whilst being at nursery.
Very little money is actually spent on staff wages, despite the fact that we are left to look after your child and the responsibility that leaves us with.
It is a job that is done for love of the children rather than for money!

Reading this thread I've just realised how expensive my childminder is, are most of you seriously charging less than £4ph or paying less than that?

I had a nightmare one previously £100 a day no matter what, so of her DH or dc were sick then she still expected payment it's no wonder she was not available for work 45% of the time

My nursery were closed for a week at Xmas. And assumed you would take 2 weeks hols. So they charged for 49 weeks per year/12. I thought this was more than fair. Better than dd's belgian creche that shut for the entire month of August at least leaving me with a slight problem....

Are you saying you dont know anyone other than CMers who get holiday pay OP?